Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?
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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time? in Cadillac V-Series Forums; My understanding is the ATS-V never performed an official lap at the Nurburgring ring. As reference points, the Honda Civic ...
  1. #1
    dcpattie's Avatar
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    Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    My understanding is the ATS-V never performed an official lap at the Nurburgring ring. As reference points, the Honda Civic Type R (305HP and FWD) has a time of 7:43 and the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio has a time of 7:32. In 2009, the CTS-V recorded a lap time of 7:59.

    I'm thinking low 7:40's for the ATS-V?

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    jim1890 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Why shouldn't it beat the Alfa?

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    slicky is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    This is the best source for your theoretical extrapolation.
    https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

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    FL103Dave is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Depends on the driver
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    If a comparable driver to the Alfa Romeo Giulia were to drive an ATS-V it should be close to a dead heat I should think.

    I've shared this comparison with some of my Alfisti friends (I'm still an Alfa Romeo club card carrying member!) when Randy Probst lapped Laguna Seca (different testing events) in both cars... AND the Caddy in both A8 and M6!
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renaldo1 View Post
    If a comparable driver to the Alfa Romeo Giulia were to drive an ATS-V it should be close to a dead heat I should think.

    I've shared this comparison with some of my Alfisti friends (I'm still an Alfa Romeo club card carrying member!) when Randy Probst lapped Laguna Seca (different testing events) in both cars... AND the Caddy in both A8 and M6!
    I knew it - the white autos are faster! :-)

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    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    The Alfa also benefitted from the lighter and stronger ceramic brakes, and the sport seats are significantly lighter too. Even more important, the Alfa comes with Pirelli P Zero Corsas designed for the car, with a tread depth of 6/32 and a wear rating of only 60! And a warning not for "standing water". It's a lightly treaded track tire! If they took an Alfa with the standard brakes and seats, and put Pilot Super Sports on it like all it's competition, it would probably be 1-2 seconds per lap slower. Conversely, put some Corsas or Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on an ATS-V and see what happens. The Corsa is basically a "cheater" tire, not really meant for daily use, as are the Sport Cups, or other R rated tires.
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    My guess is the CTS-V suffered from heat soak on the longer run. Given the better cooling of the ATS-V it should be a bit quicker than the CTS-V but likely not as quick as the Alfa over that distance.
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Now that Jim Mero has retired we are finally getting the unofficial "official" C7 Z06 times. 7:10 for the Z06 with the ZR1 only a slight bit better at 7:06 but with a slight chicane at the entrance area that slowed the car about a second. So Jim is thinking in the mid 7:04 for an equivalent full lap time. And for anybody that has seen the video of that Alfa 7:32 you know that driver was peddling the heck out of that car. So my guess would be mid 7:4x for the ATS-V.

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    justinschmidt1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Id bet it could do very similar to the alfa

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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkincy View Post
    My guess is the CTS-V suffered from heat soak on the longer run. Given the better cooling of the ATS-V it should be a bit quicker than the CTS-V but likely not as quick as the Alfa over that distance.
    Heat soak may have been a factor, but my guess for the time discrepancy is weight. The Green Hell (aka 'The Ring) is just over 14 miles long with 160 turns. And while the CTS-V handles very well 'for a car of its size'... just the fact you have to add that caveat is all there needs to be said.

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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Probably the biggest advancement in recent years is in the tires. The Super Sports on the ATS-V are considerably grippier than the PS2s on the gen 2 CTS-V. If that CTS-V had R compound tires the time would have been substantially quicker. The R compounds of 2008 are about the same as today's Super Sport/PS4s, and the Sport Cups perform about as well as older pure slicks. That's why our cars have pulled 1.0 G on full street tires. That wasn't possible in '08. That's how the Civic Type R beat the CTS-V by over 10 seconds. Also why the Alfa is so fast. it wasn't so long ago that only hard-core sports cars could do .8g. Now almost every econobox can beat that, and Car and Driver just got 1.13 on the Mustang GT PPL2, with Sport Cups. The Camaro SS 1 LE only did 1.11 g! The tires also improve braking, all of which lower lap times. Quite incredible, really.
    Renaldo1 and chosmister like this.

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    jguerdat is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    it wasn't so long ago that only hard-core sports cars could do .8g.
    Won't disagree with anything about the advancement of tire technology but the Fiat X1/9 (I had a '75) was tested at a bit over .8G on skinny 145-13 Michelin XAS tires. This was in the mid-'70s. Not exactly a hard-core sport car but more advanced than the typical low-end ones.

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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkincy View Post
    My guess is the CTS-V suffered from heat soak on the longer run. Given the better cooling of the ATS-V it should be a bit quicker than the CTS-V but likely not as quick as the Alfa over that distance.
    The CTS is a bigger car and the ATS will shave time off in the corners.

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    Re: Hypothetical Nurburgring Lap Time?

    I do not think the ring is that brake intensive. You have good runs between the tight corners and the standard Brembo calipers/steel rotors could be okay.

    The times I have been there I rented cars with carbon ceramic brakes and slotted/drilled rotors. Not a problem with fading at all.

    On tight tracks like our local track I have raced against CTS-V - insanely fast compared to my former Volvo D5 (230 bhp awd) but only a few rounds they had to go in pit to cool down. Huge fading made it run into gravel pit at the end of the straight.




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