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Clear projector lens install

5K views 33 replies 7 participants last post by  Joseph Upson 
#1 ·
acstudios put this idea in my head and I went with it since my headlight assemblies sprung a leak point and needed to be resealed. The reason appears to be from my observation, the result of a failure of the boss for the retaining screw in the upper outboard corner. The hardened sealant lets go at that location and it's revealed when the area is blasted with the water hose. Several of the bosses show stress cracks and I reinforced them by overlaying them with JB Weld clear epoxy for plastic after a little scuff work with sand paper. Getting the covers off is a little tough but doable with guidance. Start near the upper outer corner after a good bake job at 225 deg for 15 min (I've seen as high as 240 suggested). I used two screw drivers, one small to get through the crack in order to make room for the larger driver and then gently pry until you see movement and move along the top to even it out. Watch the tabs along the lower sides to avoid breaking them. Do not pry the lens too far apart at the top before going to the bottom and trying to make progress there, to reduce the chances of putting stress cracks in that area.

The clear lenses can be found here; https://www.theretrofitsource.com/complete-retrofit-kits/lenses/black-series.html

They require some work to fit properly as they are 66 mm in diameter and the OE lenses are 68 mm in diameter. The OE lens is also a little thinner along the perimeter lip. I used my dremel tool to trim slots for the retaining clips back a little to make a little more room for the slightly thicker lens, after I chipped it while thinking the lens holder would flex enough to leave as is. The chipped area does not interfere with the beam. I also added a few pieces of cork to help center the lens using DAP's Weldwood contact cement which is a very strong adhesive. There is a small convex divot at the bottom of the lens holder that fits in a slot on the OE lens, which helps push the unslotted smaller diameter lens toward the center of the housing.

The reason these assemblies cost so much money is because there's so much stuff in them. I can't imagine the horror that would be experienced by an owner who encountered a minor accident not his/her fault and let the guilty party off the hook for a couple hundred dollars cash to call it even, thinking they'll just add another hundred and get a new assembly.

As I suspected, my daytime running bulbs are blown and they're going to stay that way until I find a suitable LED to replace them with. The stock bulbs get entirely too hot for the reflector as can be seen in the picture. That makes no sense. Don't even think about installing a higher wattage bulb.

I forgot to take pictures of the LED upgrade for the light bar, but the process can be reviewed in this thread;

https://www.cadillacowners.com/foru...nts-brighter-light-bars-tubes-headlights.html

The assemblies are still curing sealant and clear coat wise so I have not been able to observe the outcome yet but will report back when I do.

Here is my earlier thread leading up to this;

https://www.cadillacforums.com/foru...bulb-replacement-minor-lens.html#post17440178
 

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#2 ·
There is a thread where someone totally upgraded their HID lights... Mine look pretty good still but I have some non-hid lights in storage that are brand new I bought for my non-hid sedan...

I want to body color match mine...

Does the clear lens make a big difference?
 
#3 ·
I don't know yet, I just finished putting them on the car. I had an interesting scare, as I was putting them on the car, I noticed hazing revealed by the sunlight that I had not seen indoors. The lights looked great except for hazing at the top and along the sides and that's when I realized it was increasing and figured out it was the temp change from warm indoors, to cool outside causing a mild condensation to form. I removed both bulb access covers and let the sunlight dry them out which took about a minute. They really look good in the sunlight. The car is filthy from sitting for four days thanks to dust and pollen and is actually a drag on the lights for a change.

I just received my shipment of CANBUS friendly leds from China via aliexpress, that's a great place to shop if you want to experiment without breaking the bank. $12.42 worth of leds in the picture. It just took 30 days.
 

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#4 ·
So far everything appears to be working normally. I do have some annoying condensation at the moment with the temp drop tonight and think it is actually chemical vapor from the DAP sealant. When I equalized the assemblies with the outside air this morning to remove the initial condensation haze, I noticed the solvent odor associated with the sealant although it has been more than 24 hrs since applied. I took another look at the label and noted it can take 7-14 days for the adhesive to cure, which is latex, not silicone but has silicone like properties and apparently it is the humidity level that affects cure times with caulk instead of the temperature. Perhaps that's why the manufacturer uses butyl which I have but decided on the latex to avoid additional baking especially with the weakened bosses for the screws.

The indoor temps at application fluctuated between 65 and 75 degrees (because someone in the house has that fish disease, "minnow pause") so I'm not sure where the bulk of the cause lies but will wait a day or two to decide whether or not I need to take further dehumidification measures. Now that I think about it, I may need to remove the headlight bulb door and tape a piece of cloth over it to help facilitate the process, because now I realize the assembly was sealed upon the covers being applied which means the gasses from the sealant on the inside of the assembly were trapped inside. In the future, the bulb access doors need to be left off during the initial 24 hr cure at least under the current weather conditions.

I took some before pics of the lighting, but until the condensation is resolved I'll have to wait before I can fairly assess any visible improvement. I know there is some because the headlight sweep at startup is not as obvious as it was before the cover clarity was restored, which is why I didn't realize the headlights did this right away when I got the car because the covers had been restored at the time. I just hope no water spots develop on the inside of the cover.
 
#6 ·
"Minnow pause" gave me a good chuckle this morning, Joseph. I'll be sure to use that line on a hormonally imbalanced middle aged woman in tears the next time I'm interested in a quick, embarrassing beatdown.

As usual, nice write-up. Interested to see if your condensation issue clears after the chemicals have reached full cure.
Lights look great!
 
#9 ·
Thanks Long, I washed the car today and the lights were really "popping". With the lights in the shape they are in now the car looks more like the occasional new CTS I run across, that's just how great an effect the light appearance can have on a car in either direction.

As for "Minnow pause", I think it, but I never say it. I know they struggle with it some times, but it's no fun waking up from a bad dream in the middle of the night brought on by a near heat stroke either, because the temperature mysteriously changed while I was wrapped up in a comforter.
 
#7 ·
Is the moving portion (Left to Right with steering wheel) of the projector part of the projector assembly or in the headlight with the projector assembly mounted to it. Maybe you can upgrade the whole projector set-up and keep the moving feature? Also, I am curious to know if you believe your new clear lens make the low beam cut-off line sharper like in this picture:

Bumper Automotive exterior Rim Rectangle
 
#8 ·
Is the moving portion (Left to Right with steering wheel) of the projector part of the projector assembly or in the headlight with the projector assembly mounted to it. Maybe you can upgrade the whole projector set-up and keep the moving feature? Also, I am curious to know if you believe your new clear lens make the low beam cut-off line sharper like in this picture:
The horizontal actuator is mounted to the carrier that holds the projector. The assembly you posted in your top photo mounts to that carrier.
I did take a look at the cut off this morning but it was from inside the car, I'll have to go back to the check point in a few days and get out of the car the way I did initially and take a look. At this point, it does not appear to be as crisp as what your pictures show, but in order for that comparison to count I would have to duplicate the exact same circumstance as demonstrated in your pics instead of the grey wall of Advance autoparts between two trash cans as markers. A far cry from a scaled background but original.

I can say the cutoff appears to be similar to what my stock lenses produced but that can't be confirmed until after the condensation clears completely and I go back and get out of the car and snap a picture like I did initially, instead of shooting through the windshield at what was also a bit further back than I was initially.

I questioned internally, whether or not the frosted appearance of the OE lens really dampened the light much given the effect is not that pronounced with the lenses side by side flat on the same surface. I saw a comparison that pointed out a little diminished resolution in the perimeter, but when I shined a flashlight through the lens at the wall and the floor, it became evident that a good bit of the outer perimeter of the lens may not play a part in the light emission at all. They call them projectors for a reason and when you think about the mechanics behind it, that all boils down to approaching laser like light emission instead of the good old spray pattern of the conventional bulbs. I also suspect that the crosshair/bullseye at the apex of the OE lens has an effect on the cutoff.
 
#10 ·
The light assemblies make up a considerable portion of the cars front end real estate, so it goes without saying that tarnished lenses would detract from the appearance.
Kudos for taking on the job!
 
#11 ·
Well done, Mr. Upson. May I ask what you used to seal and coat the lenses?
 
#12 ·
DAP Black Dynaflex 230 from Lowe's along with a caulk gun totaling about $8. Don't go crazy with it like I did even though it appears that's what the factory did.

The coating was a 50/50 mix of Minwax indoor/outdoor Helmsman clear gloss spar urethane, oil based (green can) and odorless mineral spirits. It's as impressive as acstudios said it was and equally forgiving. I didn't like my first attempt and simply wiped it all off with spirits in less than a minute and started over. It's a very quick process.

The challenge is making sure you don't miss any spots. I'd say make the shop towel square about 1.5" in width and about 1/4" thick and try to position yourself, or the light in a manner that makes it easy to see if you miss a spot. I believe the dimensions above which are a little smaller than what I used and more flexible will make it easier. I did a lot of reading on the subject after the process which took me to the masters of varnish use, wood carpenters and boatmen, where I learned Zymol auto wax is about the best thing on the market to use on varnish because it has no silicone and no solvents and gives an awesome shine although in this case, it's the added UV protection it can offer which may prolong the urethane service life.

On a pro headlight resto forum I learned that when using the urethane method, it is better to prime the surface by wiping it with mineral spirits after a thorough cleaning to remove any wax residue, and let it dry. Then dampen your applicator a little with mineral spirits before you dip it in the mix. The theoretical side of me leads me to believe that the priming step results in the urethane having a bridging surface film to help fill in those little skip spots that can occur. I found two spots the following day after application and performed some spot work.
 
#13 ·
Thank you. I plan to refinish my lenses when the weather gets a lot warmer. I'll also be changing all the bulbs, possibly to LED. Do you suppose that a foam brush would work well for the application? Any thoughts on rattle can clear coating?
 
#14 ·
My understanding is that the right kind of brush can work, however, no one seems to go that route for headlight finishing and offered no recommendations. As for the clear coat spray, I noted that rustoleum 2k is hit and miss and when it misses it does so in a bad way and duplicolor clear does a decent job but might not hold up as well as the urethane. I first purchased a can of the good stuff, the professional two part 2k clear in the can, but wasn't in a hurry to waste it on one set of headlights at nearly $20 a can and a 48 hr shelf life once activated. Depending on how well the urethane does, I have it for backup and will plan to do both cars plus my mom's to make sure it doesn't go to waste.

I watched a couple of videos of it in action and it really does do a great job and I'm certain it is better than the urethane application, just not as safe to use. You need a respirator mask and distance from anything you don't want paint on because the stuff gets on everything despite the careless nature of some individuals seen spraying it in videos. You don't want that stuff in your lungs, or on cars it is not supposed to be on. I setup the urethane on the dining room table without issue. My wife was asleep.
 
#15 ·
Thanks, urethane it is. Not the expensive kind either.

Was she also asleep when you baked your lights open in her oven?
 
#22 ·
I tried the 3M kit recently on my Mom's car and it worked well, however, it's a matter of time before it is necessary to refresh the lights again. The minor kit I first used on my own lights worked in that it improved the appearance, but nowhere near what they are now and it was only good for about 3 months barely.

It depends on the condition the lights are in. I still have a 3M kit left, but in the experience I've gained over the past few months, I wouldn't use any of the quick kits again because even their instructions allude to the need for more sanding work for the best results which requires more grit stages than they provide. It does appear regular waxing afterwards will buy some time.

The spark plug incident was definitely a Twilight Zone moment. Correcting that is where I lost the time to do the valve cleaning I had planned as the engine mounts were a bear and I'll posting a brief thread on that shortly. In the mean time I'm going to perform a test run of the valve cleaning method on one of the loose cylinder heads. I intend to use both brass and nylon bottle brushes for the job and don't believe there will be a problem with the bristles, especially with an air compressor close by to clear the ports. I have no doubt that the carb cleaner in the gallon can I mentioned will make short work of the deposits.
 
#23 ·
I suppose the question of how to restore depends heavily upon one's expectations. What I like about the Turtle wax kit is the convenience of having everything in one package for a low price. IIRC it includes 3 grits of wet sand paper and polish. OTOH, I may just pick up some wet sandpaper and urethane from Lowes. I've got weeks of winter left to decide. Any thoughts on Meguiars headlight sealant? It's supposed to last a year and is easy to re-apply annually.

Nice write-up on the motor mounts. May I ask how many miles you had on those? If the carb cleaner doesn't work as well as expected I recommend trying Gumout or CRC valve cleaner. They're both loaded with PEA. I found a video of a BMW owner cleaning his valves with CRC. It's rather long but 16 mins in it shows the CRC foaming away as it eats the carbon. I look forward to your results and hope that you take lots of photos, if practical.
 
#24 ·
I suppose the question of how to restore depends heavily upon one's expectations. What I like about the Turtle wax kit is the convenience of having everything in one package for a low price. IIRC it includes 3 grits of wet sand paper and polish. OTOH, I may just pick up some wet sandpaper and urethane from Lowes. I've got weeks of winter left to decide. Any thoughts on Meguiars headlight sealant? It's supposed to last a year and is easy to re-apply annually.

Nice write-up on the motor mounts. May I ask how many miles you had on those? If the carb cleaner doesn't work as well as expected I recommend trying Gumout or CRC valve cleaner. They're both loaded with PEA. I found a video of a BMW owner cleaning his valves with CRC. It's rather long but 16 mins in it shows the CRC foaming away as it eats the carbon. I look forward to your results and hope that you take lots of photos, if practical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn6NVHLy-Xc
 
#25 ·
I have no experience with the Meguiars sealant but did see a demo along with some reviews that by comparison were not as good as the pro grade 2K clear which I have and initially intended to use, before giving the less toxic urethane a try. The mounts went out at 175k, but those are mostly hwy miles. One thing's for sure, when they're good there's no vibration, not even what I thought was innocent and inherent of the motor at one time.

I looked at the video and also read several reviews some of which stated what I suspected, that the cleaner used doesn't do as good a job as the foaming action might lead one to think and that means a good bit of manual scrubbing would be needed with it. There's no doubt the carb cleaner in the gallon can will work because I've used it on hardened carbon deposits before and it is intended to have parts soaked in it. It doesn't bubble, it dissolves the deposits making them easy to brush away. Even the dirty used solvent I have left is effective at doing this. I don't intend to allow anything to enter the cylinder.

I just finished a near 800 mile round trip to Panama City FL yesterday (in one day), the storm wrecked that place, I thought I-10 was bad with snapped and downed trees all over the place, but the town really got hammered. On the return leg I stopped in Tallahassee to see the good friend and mentor who helped me along early in my diy automotive experience. He's on the out skirts of town so I got to experience the old canopy roads I appreciated when I lived there as a youngster. The bright lights lit them up like the sun and again I could see the cutoff line on the trees in the periphery. I had my youngster with me whom the trip was for and it made for an exciting ride for her, driving through that darkness, especially one point where the well lit road looked like it just dropped away like a cliff as we approached a slight crest. I feel a lot better about the lens swap now that I notice characteristics that I don't recall having with the original lenses.
 
#26 ·
I'm just looking for a spray application and I won't be using the 2K clear. It may be better but I'll settle for a less toxic, less expensive solution for my modest expectations. My mounts feel fine and hopefully they'll stay that way for a few more years. The only thing wrong is a suspect TPMS sensor and a low speed-constant drivetrain hum that sounds like the driveshaft carrier bearing to me. I'll take a look in the spring.

That carb cleaner may work great, I wouldn't know. It does seem odd to me that a solvent designed to remove varnish from a carb would be more effective at softening carbon than a solvent designed for it. PEA is what makes Techron so effective at carbon removal. But whatever works. I'm looking forward to doing mine when winter ends.

That sounds like a fun drive, albeit a little long for my liking.I'm glad that you're enjoying your newly reconditioned headlights so much. I'm anxious to do mine and replace all the bulbs. I'm still researching my low beam options but it will be either LED, HID or H9 low beams, H9 highs and LED markers. With any luck I won't have to pull them again for a few years.
 
#27 ·
Without doing the research, I imagine a significant amount of varnish is carbon and since the associated areas contain both forms of deposits, the cleaner is designed to be effective on both and at the same time safe for carb components. I've sprayed numerous aerosol cleaners over the years and none have come remotely close to the effectiveness of the carb dip.

The drive wasn't a trip I looked forward to, but my "baby chick" wanted to attend the funeral of a relative she was close to so I had to go. I just checked the odometer on the first drive since the trip, 775 miles, zeroed before leaving home. I haven't driven like that since I was 19-21 yrs old making the 1400 mile trips on leave from the Army between Tampa FL and Ft. Riley KS in one day. Insane.

The picture shows some of the improvement, but not as much as can be seen from behind the wheel. The greatest difference between the two is in the center.
 

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#28 ·
Nice clean cut-off in the bottom pic. The top pic has a fair amount of glare above the cut-off. I don't really see much difference in illumination or brightness. Maybe a bit more width and foreground in the bottom pic.
 
#29 · (Edited)
There are also other characteristic differences with distance which probably explains why my attention is also drawn to the shoulders of the road which can be perceived as either brightness, or greater illumination from increased width of the beam which you've observed. I definitely see a positive improvement with the condensation resolved. I'm also able to see the beam movement better when the steering wheel is turned. Some have described the adaptive movement as gimmicky, but on those narrow pitch black canopy roads the other night, I was glad to have that flashlight action.

The bright phase is pretty impressive, acstudios alluded to that here;

https://www.cadillacforums.com/foru...hid-headlight-problems-lenses-suck-lol-5.html

I tested them on the interstate on a wide stretch bounded by trees and they zapped the area pretty intensely. Despite the improvement, I wouldn't encourage anyone to open up perfectly good headlights to make the change, but if the covers are coming off anyway, consider it. I still believe making an adjustment to the cutoff screw, to lower the shutter a bit and allow a little more light through would be perceived as a welcomed improvement.

The picture comparison is not ideal since the distance from the wall was off by a few feet (editing makes it look about the same) and the ambient lighting was also brighter in the after picture, so the difference could possibly have been a bit more pronounced than it appeared under more closely matched lighting. I need to look into my adjustments also as I may need to aim them up a little.
 
#32 ·
These came out great!
Be glad that the vapors cleared up, silicone outgassing while it cures can etch into the polycarbonate lenses, especially if it says that it releases acetic acid, many people have ruined their projects like this. GE Silicone II is kinder in this aspect, but really this is what butyl rubber is for.

The 2.5" clear lens swap is the easiest way to improve the output, and those two little torx screws let you fine tune the sharpness/color of the cutoff line. I needed to do some tweaking here on mine to get the cutoff just right, it wasn't totally great by just swapping in the clear lenses. This was done off the car, powering up the ballasts with a computer power supply.

Lens swap lets you retain the swivelling, which is how the stock projectors compensate for the narrow beam pattern, but a larger 3" projector like the G5-EX or MiniD2S 5.0 have a much, much wider pattern to begin with.
 
#33 ·
Thanks, I was aware of the potential trouble from sealants and glue from my model building days. The sealant I used is not silicone based and just gave off a lot of moisture (because I used a lot). I also used it to seal the third brake light at the mount points on trunk last week.

I watched a brief youtube video on a 2", 2.5" and 3" projector comparison which didn't reveal enough to be called a comparison, but what I did note was the guy saying there wasn't any difference in the lens performance and that the diameter increase filled the headlight better. I thought to myself, "That can't be right". After leaning back on my physics courses, I quickly realized the larger diameter lens allows more light through, or basically increases the width of the beam. So yeah, I've already been looking into the 3" projector, except with the possibility of mounting a 3" lens to the existing frame work once I get a hold of a damaged assembly for a reasonable price.
 
#34 ·
9 months later and it was time for a redo. They weren't awful, but they were obviously starting to dull, especially on the top. I waxed them on occasion, but I'm not sure if that had any prolonging effect. I did a little more research looking for support on my theory that additional coats, or a higher ratio of urethane in the mix should provide more UV protection and found it in the form of some pros stating that they use 60-70% urethane and achieve good durability and appearance in excess of a year.

I went wayyy off script this time, but it ended well so far. Since the lights had been restored with the spar method previously, it doesn't take much to remove the old coating. I started with the lights on the car this time, which I will not do again, it's inefficient and the slurry can settle on car bits beneath the surface, harmless but messy. I can remove both assemblies in 15 min so it isn't necessary either.

This time around; 500, 800, 1000, 2000, buff with Meguiars PlastX, cleaned with 70% alcohol and then with mineral spirits. 500 wasn't necessary. There is some debate on the finishing grit and whether or not to polish I found, but I'm going to keep doing what worked for me. The initial resto was finished with a 3000 grit pad supplied with the 3M kit I used at that time. What I've found is that the finer the grit, the clearer the lens gets naturally and it was most evident when I jumped to 2000 grit paper, I didn't have 3000 and did not feel it was necessary although in the future I will use it.

It takes a little practice to get comfortable with the application process and I ended up with a few small streaks of bare surface. This is where I went afoul of the process. The lights really looked good and although the streaks were not easily seen, I couldn't leave them alone. The rule is to promptly wipe the spar off with mineral spirits and reapply. Since I missed the prompt period, didn't want to do anymore sanding and had read where someone waited 25 min and applied an additional coat while the initial was still a bit tacky, that's what I did, for one light and for the other with a few bare streaks on the top, I just applied a second layer to the top. So one light has a full second coat of what I estimate to have been at least a 60/40% mix. Time will tell what the outcome will be, otherwise they look very nice again.

I'm amazed at how the lenses can go from ashen to clear in this process.
Land vehicle Vehicle Grille Automotive exterior Car
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Grille Automotive exterior
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