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Cadillac Forums: 180 degree performance thermostat
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Old 07-26-04, 05:10 PM
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180 degree performance thermostat

A cooler engine produces more horsepower. The manufacturer uses a 195 degree thermostat to meet emissions. I'm having trouble finding a 180 degree thermostat for the CTS 3.6 Can anybody help me?
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Old 07-26-04, 05:16 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

A cooler engine (below designed operating tempurature) also increases wear exponentially, and in the case of many GM products lowers chasis dyno #'s, just FYI.

-Ben
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Old 07-26-04, 07:21 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjet
A cooler engine (below designed operating tempurature) also increases wear exponentially, and in the case of many GM products lowers chasis dyno #'s, just FYI.

-Ben
Ben
Contrary to what I know. Maybe you can share your info source?
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Old 07-26-04, 07:49 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCTS
A cooler engine produces more horsepower. The manufacturer uses a 195 degree thermostat to meet emissions. I'm having trouble finding a 180 degree thermostat for the CTS 3.6 Can anybody help me?
Typically, therms also require a reprogrammed ecm to work effectively.
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Old 07-26-04, 08:14 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCTS
A cooler engine produces more horsepower. The manufacturer uses a 195 degree thermostat to meet emissions. I'm having trouble finding a 180 degree thermostat for the CTS 3.6 Can anybody help me?
Cooler intake air is what makes power due to an increased density, not a cooler engine block. An engine actually makes more power and becomes more efficient the hotter it becomes. The trick is to get the engine really hot, but not to the point of melt down of the components.

Hence manufacturers utilize pressurized coolant systems which raise the boiling point of water, allowing increased engine operating temperatures before the coolant changes state from a liquid to a gas. "Simple" thermodynamics.
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Old 07-26-04, 08:29 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

A complicating factor is that as an aluminum cylinder block expands, the deck height becomes higher and the compression ratio lowers. The old ZL-1 427 Chevy aluminum big block engine actually developed lower horsepower than the L-88 427 cast iron engine when both engines were hot. The only important difference between them was the aluminum block. Esoteric to be sure.
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Old 07-26-04, 08:31 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthV
Cooler intake air is what makes power due to an increased density, not a cooler engine block. An engine actually makes more power and becomes more efficient the hotter it becomes. The trick is to get the engine really hot, but not to the point of melt down of the components.

Hence manufacturers utilize pressurized coolant systems which raise the boiling point of water, allowing increased engine operating temperatures before the coolant changes state from a liquid to a gas. "Simple" thermodynamics.
Curious. Why is there such a market for these therms? I can't find the one for the CTS but many for others like the small block Chevy. They do promise increased HP.
Check out this link and tell me what you think?

http://www.martelbrothers.com/custom...cat=589&page=1
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Old 07-26-04, 09:07 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

A lower temp thermostat works by making the ECM provide a richer fuel/air mixture. Why does this make more power? Because an engine's power is limited by the amount of oxygen it can combust, not fuel (it's easy to add more fuel but the amount of oxygen in the cylinder is fixed). If you had a mixture that on average was stoichiometric, there would still be pockets that were a bit rich and pockets that were a bit too lean to burn. By creating a richer overall mixture, you ensure that those slightly lean pockets have enough fuel to burn, and therefore you are combusting all of the oxygen possible and making max power.

This was more of an issue on older cars with poorer combustion control. On modern engines there's not nearly as much to be gained by a cooler thermostat.
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Old 07-26-04, 09:20 PM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

There's a market for them because people, like yourself, believe it is better. People will sell you anything to make a buck.

One can't argue with Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics. The higher the difference between the intake air and engine temperature, the more power and efficiency. It's all in here --> Thermodynamics of a Gasoline Engine

Because of the physical laws of the universe we live in, nothing is free, there is always a trade-off. Just like K&N filters - sure they flow more air, the trade off? They don't filter dirt out of the air stream as well as a paper filter.
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Old 07-27-04, 03:44 AM
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Re: 180 degree performance thermostat

Thank ya StealthV for backing me up between visits to my screen
-Ben
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