My newest project...
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Suspension, Brakes and Tires Discussion, My newest project... in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Just got it done today, and took it out on the testing grounds. It takes what the rear strut bar ...
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    Ghost C's Avatar
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    My newest project...



    Just got it done today, and took it out on the testing grounds. It takes what the rear strut bar that I put on did to a whole new level, the rear is stiffened up alot. Cornering through even the toughest corners (trust me on this) is so much flatter and smoother than stock now, it's like a whole other car.

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    Re: My newest project...

    wow, that is pretty nifty lookin'. what's the diameter on that piping? it doesn't look very big. what's it made out of? steel? ddi you flatten the ends yourself?

    guess you don't need the spare tire for anything, either.

    one more question! what's that silver cylinder on the bottom right of your trunk lid in the picture??

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    Re: My newest project...

    3/4" tubular steel, and yes, I did all the work on it myself.

    Spare tire? For what? I have AAA and all of my OEM wheels if I ever need a spare.

    The silver cylinder is the bottom of one of the two blue neons I have wired up in the trunk lid.

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    Re: My newest project...

    does it connect to the undercarriage/suspension ???

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    Re: My newest project...

    No, it mounts to two pickup points at the top of the trunk (Originally holes for the clips that held the side panels in place), and to two holes drilled into the piece in the spare tire well.

    Fairly easy job, only took me about a half hour to get it installed after everything was built.

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    Re: My newest project...

    Imagine if you used real metal and welded everything up at the proper angles , esp with the chassis unloaded.....

    cant belive you got any diffrence in handleing with that

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    Re: My newest project...

    Is that supposed to be an insult or something? Yes, I realize that if I welded in pieces, it would work significantly better, although I'm not entirely sure what the "real metal" comment is about.

    The difference in handling comes from the fact that instead of a giant hole in the structure of the body, there is a solid brace. Stiffer chassis = Less body roll, more grip to all of the tires. More grip = Better handling.

    If you can only think of negative things to say, then please don't post.

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    Re: My newest project...

    hey Ghost,

    I guess we're trying to figure out..HOW that baby actually
    changes the suspension..lol

    at least I am...I have done lifts on 4WD's..Chevy Ford and International's

    and I understand the mechanics of sway bars...(essential on lifts )

    it looks like you put some thought into it, so I would be stoopit to
    comment on its performance, etc.. plus, If I was around the corner..you could pick me up and prove it..lol

    Best of all to ya..looks pretty cool. mount a 12 inch woofer
    in that 'V' ..!!!

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost C
    Is that supposed to be an insult or something? Yes, I realize that if I welded in pieces, it would work significantly better, although I'm not entirely sure what the "real metal" comment is about.
    The difference in handling comes from the fact that instead of a giant hole in the structure of the body, there is a solid brace. Stiffer chassis = Less body roll, more grip to all of the tires. More grip = Better handling.
    If you can only think of negative things to say, then please don't post.
    Wasnt supposed to be , now if youd like me to insult you id me more than happy ....I was simply pointing out "if you think thats good just think if you..." I was acutally being really nice .....

    I could comment about your choice in wheels from a chrysler minivan , and how you think that useing metal tubeing thats more akin to what holds the flag up on your doorstep (or a broomstick) then something that can actually support a load , esp thru that tiny little bolt there at the spare tire well , or the areas where you flattend it ....If it ever saw the loads it would need to take to stiffen the chassis it would just snap the bolt off right there.....

    How many REAL racecars have you built ? Im at 4 .....

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneage_Caddy
    Wasnt supposed to be , now if youd like me to insult you id me more than happy ....I was simply pointing out "if you think thats good just think if you..." I was acutally being really nice .....
    Underhanded comments aren't anything close to "really nice".

    I could comment about your choice in wheels from a chrysler minivan ,
    Oooh, clever. They're Enkei EUM5's, and while being an inch larger and a half inch wider than the stocks, the wheel and tire combination is 15lbs lighter PER WHEEL than stock. So, I wouldn't care if they were hot pink.

    and how you think that useing metal tubeing thats more akin to what holds the flag up on your doorstep (or a broomstick) then something that can actually support a load , esp thru that tiny little bolt there at the spare tire well , or the areas where you flattend it
    I don't know where your "actually support a load" theory comes from. I repeatedly test everything I put on the car for stress, especially chassis reinforcement, and unless there is some magic way to throw a DeVille through a corner harder (there isn't), it's seen all the load it will ever see more than 75 times in the day that it's been in there.

    ....If it ever saw the loads it would need to take to stiffen the chassis it would just snap the bolt off right there.....
    Apparently you missed that part of my design, so I'll explain it to you. The braces don't push on any part of the chassis, they push on each other. See the nifty little brace in the center there at the bottom? That's to distribute the load evenly across the brace. The top is the same way, except with the horizontal bar on the outside. Reduced stress on the chassis itself, and the braces, and my 9.8 grade bolts and nuts, which I don't think would break anyway, but thanks for your concern.

    How many REAL racecars have you built ? Im at 4 .....
    I don't know, what's a "real" racecar? Near unlimited budgets and a bunch of people who think a part will only work if it's got a brand name on it? None.

    But, here's a question for you. How many 4.9 DeVilles have you built for being a daily driver and a track car? I already know the answer, so on to my next question. How many have I built? One, which is an infinite number of times more than you or anyone else has built.

    So here's my final response to your negativity, if you think you can do better on the same budget, no, on twice the budget, I would like to see you try. Come for my title. End all say all - If you can't do better than me, your opinion doesn't matter.

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost C
    I don't know, what's a "real" racecar? Near unlimited budgets and a bunch of people who think a part will only work if it's got a brand name on it? None.
    But, here's a question for you. How many 4.9 DeVilles have you built for being a daily driver and a track car? I already know the answer, so on to my next question. How many have I built? One, which is an infinite number of times more than you or anyone else has built.
    So here's my final response to your negativity, if you think you can do better on the same budget, no, on twice the budget, I would like to see you try. Come for my title. End all say all - If you can't do better than me, your opinion doesn't matter.
    Supporting/tranfering a load is what your doing with those braces , or at least attempting to do , the towers flexing against the bar and being tranfered to another location is a load . The ammount of force you need to tranfer/remove to give any chnge in handleing is so great that those little metal pipes will fail , and most likely shear the bolts somewhere in that process ...

    I coulda have done what you did , (excludeing tool costs) 50% cheaper then you did , roughly the price you paid for the bolts. And i would have gained something noticeable....What you have done is meerly step one , mock up ...

    Im willing to bet i wouldnt have to do anything to my car to run with you ....Id be more than happy to school you at a autocross event , with little more than my "soft ride" passive struts and piss poor tires ...

    Its a deville , itll never handle the way you want or think it will untill you invest an obseen ammount of money into it ....You have no clue how much these cars flex do you ? You would need to fully cage the car , and find a way to tie the nose of the car to the cage as THAT is the problem area , the flexing that goes on logitudally from that area is insane .....But why invest the money in one to make it do something that it has no buiness doing? Its too heavy , flexes to much ,stuck with an automatic tranny and its suspension design doesnt lend itself well to what we want to do ....

    Real race cars , you know , ones that win champoinships , ones that 6 years after they were built are still being campigned in SCCA .....3 of them costing less then 10 grand total to build (excudleing man hours)....Money or time is what it costs to build a car , if you dont have money then you beatter have time and skill , thankfully i was taught by some of the best , and that experence kept me out of trouble when i was in highschool ....

    And your defensiveness only assures me your arent sure you made a diffrence either ....But trust me you did , getting rid fo the spare tire saved a nice bit of weight that had no business being aft of the rear axel line ...Thats probably why you noticed a diffrence ....

    Im sorry you found my first comments underhanded , that wasnt my intent , like i said before ....
    I admitted that i couldnt belive it made a differnce , but i was giving you the beneift of the doubt , i could have just raised a bullshit flag ....All the nastyness aside , i do like you car , and the wheels do look nice on it ....whever they came from ....

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    Re: My newest project...

    Summer Donna..!!

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by csason
    Summer Donna..!!
    LOL ....id for sure have to get someone to videotape it ....nothing ot be funnier then to old ass devilles battlleing for low lap time , spewing cones and scrapeing hoorhandles ...

    and poping into nutral after the first turn remotely close to .5 gs , tranny pans will need to be baffled to do this with any sort of seriousness ...

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneage_Caddy
    Supporting/tranfering a load is what your doing with those braces , or at least attempting to do , the towers flexing against the bar and being tranfered to another location is a load . The ammount of force you need to tranfer/remove to give any chnge in handleing is so great that those little metal pipes will fail , and most likely shear the bolts somewhere in that process ...
    Well, they've held up so far. Only time will tell on long term aspect, but I've had a STB made of the same 3/4" tubular steel in the car since August and it has yet to fail in any way.

    I coulda have done what you did , (excludeing tool costs) 50% cheaper then you did , roughly the price you paid for the bolts. And i would have gained something noticeable....What you have done is meerly step one , mock up ...
    I kinda doubt that you could do it 50% cheaper. Especially not what I paid for the bolts, they were free, sourced from something I removed from the car to save weight.

    Im willing to bet i wouldnt have to do anything to my car to run with you....Id be more than happy to school you at a autocross event , with little more than my "soft ride" passive struts and piss poor tires ...
    Its a deville , itll never handle the way you want or think it will untill you invest an obseen ammount of money into it
    I'd be more than happy to autocross you, but my car isn't going to be for auto-x, although I'm sure I could still handle it. If you're really interested, my first planned track event is September, the Redline Time Attack Challenge event at Summit Point Raceway, WV.

    ....You have no clue how much these cars flex do you ? You would need to fully cage the car , and find a way to tie the nose of the car to the cage as THAT is the problem area , the flexing that goes on logitudally from that area is insane .....But why invest the money in one to make it do something that it has no buiness doing? Its too heavy , flexes to much ,stuck with an automatic tranny and its suspension design doesnt lend itself well to what we want to do ....
    I do know how much the car flexes. That's why I'm putting more time and effort into reinforcing the chassis than engine mods. Why? Because it's fun, you might think I'm crazy for doing something different, but I think everyone else is crazy for doing it all the same. As for too heavy, well, at race weight my car is only 18lbs heavier than a Ferrari Enzo, so heavy is all subjective.

    Real race cars , you know , ones that win champoinships , ones that 6 years after they were built are still being campigned in SCCA .....3 of them costing less then 10 grand total to build (excudleing man hours)....Money or time is what it costs to build a car , if you dont have money then you beatter have time and skill , thankfully i was taught by some of the best , and that experence kept me out of trouble when i was in highschool ....
    In that case, this would be the third race car I've built. Keep in mind, the biggest cost involved with this car was the tires, and that the wheels and tires are over 1/2 the money I've spent on the car since I got it.

    And your defensiveness only assures me your arent sure you made a diffrence either....But trust me you did , getting rid fo the spare tire saved a nice bit of weight that had no business being aft of the rear axel line ...Thats probably why you noticed a diffrence ....
    The spare has been out since I purchased the car, along with several hundred pounds of other weight. And I'm quite sure the brace made a difference, I just don't take kindly to people telling me that since I don't have a full roll cage or whatever that it's not worth the effort.

    Im sorry you found my first comments underhanded , that wasnt my intent , like i said before ....I admitted that i couldnt belive it made a differnce , but i was giving you the beneift of the doubt , i could have just raised a bullshit flag ....All the nastyness aside , i do like you car , and the wheels do look nice on it ....whever they came from ....
    and poping into nutral after the first turn remotely close to .5 gs , tranny pans will need to be baffled to do this with any sort of seriousness ...
    Is that what that was? I bounced it off the limiter a little yesterday at about 45 coming through a turn, got the inside wheel on the yellow and it was spinning, I figured it was just the wheel spinning that made it do it, because as soon as I let off it popped into second, even though I was still cornering.

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    Re: My newest project...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost C
    Is that what that was? I bounced it off the limiter a little yesterday at about 45 coming through a turn, got the inside wheel on the yellow and it was spinning, I figured it was just the wheel spinning that made it do it, because as soon as I let off it popped into second, even though I was still cornering.
    most liekly , i know its happend to me a couple times toying with a civic (he thoought he could shake me) , im fairly sure its a problem in the lower pan as the fluid sloshes away from the filter/pickup , but its entirely possible fluid is being sloshed into the side pan , and if thats the case then one would need to figure out a way to controll that without comprimiseing fluid flow ...

    side note , none of my race cars ever touched the street , they were all track only ...but i did build a street legal autocross track car for a guy , i dont count it as a racecar , but it had alot of work in it ...If im not miskaten we were the first do build up a 1.9 TDI jetta for track use in the US , no magainzes , no girls on the hood , no one ever knew what we did , but it was one kickass little car , esp back in the mid 90s ....My boss built a Audi A3 in 1999 (not availble int he US at the time) , got the car from the VW mule fleet when they were down here testing , that was a neat car ....like everything else we gutted it , caged it and went on from there ....

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