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Suspension, Brakes and Tires Discussion, Broken Lugs and Studs in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Originally Posted by walterroc I have the brake rotor and caliper off.When you say caliper mounting bracked I think you ...
  1. #16
    Dadillac's Avatar
    Dadillac is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Quote Originally Posted by walterroc
    I have the brake rotor and caliper off.When you say caliper mounting bracked I think you mean the assy that retains the disc pads. The casting that the caliper is mounted to is attached to the strut/spring assemby and the bottom of it is around the drive axel or cv joint. and the tie rods are attached to it. Maybe I'm missing something. The lug bolt is actually slightly shorter as it does not have the 1/4" unthreaded tip. This is a 98 Eldorado right front maybe it is a little different. If i am incorrect regarding the caliper mounting bracket please let me know. Thanks
    The strut is mounted to the spindle (knuckle), the caliper bracket is mounted to the spindle (two bolts to remove it), the caliper mounts to the mount bracket. You removed two small bolts to remove the caliper. The bracket that the caliper mounted to, must be removed. There are two large bolts (18mm if I remember right), that remove this bracket. Once the bracket is off, you have plenty of room for the studs.

    Don

  2. #17
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Depending on the year, unhooking the knuckle from the strut is not really a desireable method.
    To remove the hub you do have to move the knuckle though.
    I usually remove the lower ball joint from the knucle and swing it out.
    If you remove the knuckle from the strut you will mess up the front end alignment. You can mark the strut for reassembly when you are done but usually it's not very easy to remove the fasteners without air tools or big breaker bars. Especially the axle nut, which is I think a 34, 35 or 36mm.
    (I don't remember off hand)
    Those things are on tight and they come off hard all the way.

    I always use torque sticks.
    Also NEVER let anyone put anti-seize or ANY kind of lubricant on the bolts.
    I think 80% of toque is friction and if you mess with the friction you throw off the torque and stretch the studs to failure. Usually they break because they were left loose though.

  3. #18
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Snowing like h**l here in MA. Last night I took off the wheel nut. Could not get the hub off, need puller. I suspected that because it appears there is a tapered spline, but it was to late to get a puller. I assume I can rent or buy one from Autozone. It was late so I am going back to-day. I have a ? for ewill3rd or anyone who can answer. Do I need to rotate the knuckle to get clearance to use the breaker bar or is there another reason. Instead of disconnecting the lower ball joint I turned the steering wheel. That gave me the clearance to use breaker bar. One thing I'm going to try before I pull the hub. When I tried to insert the lug bolt from the rear of the hub on right side, the clearance was almost enough it looked like I needed a TAD more clearance from the knuckle or whatever the casting is. The bolt shoulder diameter is 5/8ths. I filed a flat surface on the edge of the shoulder, this amounted to 1/16th" reduction on one side of the circumference leaving about 90% of the shoulder. If that does not work I guess I pull the hub. I'll let you know how I make out.

  4. #19
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    You shouldn't need a puller.
    You know the hub bolts in from the back side right?
    After you get that giant nut off you have to take the bolts out of the back side of the knuckle. If you put a puller on the hub flange and yank it out with a slide hammer you will destroy the hub, that will be costly to say the least.
    Actually if you get the big nut off I think you can turn it back and forth to get the bolts out of the back without unhooking the ball joint. I might be getting confused with replacing the CV boots...

  5. #20
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    I am still pressing that the caliper bracket needs to be removed. Removing the hub is not necessary. You removed the caliper, that is good. Now, the plate that the caliper bolts to, has two large bolts, that need to be removed. Once this plate (caliper bracket) is removed, you will be able to install the studs.

    Don

  6. #21
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    I have the brake rotor and caliper off
    I think there is some confusion of terminology here.
    If the rotor is off, the caliper mounting bracket is off too. There is no way to remove the rotor if the bracket is off. Perhaps you are referring to the knuckle. See the illustration below.
    The backing plate is on the left, the hub is center and the right we see the "knuckle".
    Removing the knuckle would make it easy to remove the bolts that hold the hub on, but having the rotor off should give plenty of room to knock out the studs. The problem is that sometimes they are too long to sneak the new studs into the hub because of the knuckle. In the shop on a lift this wouldn't be an issue, but in the snow on the ground it would majorly suck.
    As I said removing the knuckle is an option but an unnecessary one. It will ruin the alignment and he'll have to get that done.

    I am hoping this image will clear things up a little.
    Attached Images

  7. #22
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    Smile Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Update on my adventure. I filed a flat surface on a part of the bolt shoulder then grinded a small groove in the casting and inserted the 3 bolts after aligning each bolt hole with the groove. Took a little more than an hour. This seemed easier than pulling hub and I don't believe any integrity is affected as the casting is quite large. Thanks to all who had suggestions.

    [IMG]file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tml1%5C02%5Cclip_image002.jpg[/IMG]

  8. #23
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    ewill, I did not see your last post until after I sent my previous post.Thanks for your help. I was able to knock out the broken studs but the knuckle prevented the insertion of the new bolts as the clearance was not sufficient. Believe me I rotated the hub and tried many times to get them in. The bolts were actually a little shorter as they did not have the unthreaded tip like the old bolts, two of which were still in the hub. Thanks again.
    BTw do you know what the torque is for the wheel nut. I did loosen it up before I decided on the filing option.

  9. #24
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Tighten the hub nut to 145 N·m (110 lb ft).

    The lugs are
    Tighten wheel nuts to 140 N·m (100 lb ft).

  10. #25
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Thank you for the torque specs. I just completed tightening with a torque wrench from brother-in law, big difference compared to what I had done. This problem of three broken lug bolts was caused by me.I had done a brake job several weeks before. I believe that I did not tighten the nuts enough. I used a 3/8ths ratchet and socket. I tightened the nuts but forgot to go back and do a final tightening with a lug wrench. I'm buying a torque wrench. Thanks again for your help.

  11. #26
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    Glad to help.

    It's my experience that most bolts that fail while in regular driving were left loose. Overtightened bolts typically fail when you overtighten them... I mean right then and there... not later.

    Good to hear you are back on the road.
    Sorry you had to endure the weather to accomplish your goal.

  12. #27
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    Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    For what it's worth, I would not use a hammer to remove the old studs. This can damage the expensive and complex FWD bearings on our cars. They make stud removal tools that aren't expensive for this particular purpose. It's like a small C-clamp that you use to "press" the stud out the back of the hub/bearing. The service manual for our Grand Caravan even specifically warns against hammering studs out of a FWD wheel bearing.

  13. #28
    84ELDO is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Question Re: Broken Lugs and Studs

    I have a broken stud on the left front of a 84 eldorado. It is front wheel drive. Banging the stud out would not work for me since the studs are part of the front wheel bearings. Any other suggestions to get the broken stud out?

    84Eldo

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