Cadillac Owners Forum banner
87K views 252 replies 57 participants last post by  derone 
#1 ·
2001 STS 34,000 miles

My 2001 STS has been back to dealer nine times for this 60-75 MPH Shake/Shimmy. Cadillac zone rep drove the car and said it is OK. This problem comes and goes. after having a tire store balance the tires it lasted 300 miles. Now time to balance again, this game is getting old. Went 300 miles without any problem, now Shake/Shimmy again.


Owned 92 STS and it drove perfect, no shake/shimmy. Also owned a 1997 Concourse, drove perfect too. What did Cadillac do to their front wheel drive. They have replaced the tires (1.5) sets, 6 balancings, front control bushings replaced. Cadillac customer care offered free tires and oil changes for two year. I said "No thanks I just want my car fixed. They said they would continue to work on it. I think Cadillac dealers need special hotels for owners of this Shimmy/Shake problem. They can balance at night while we sleep. The dealers are getting tired of seeing me as they have no solution.

How many thousand Cadillacs are out there that have a Shake/Shimmy problem.

Frank in Dallas texas
 
See less See more
#207 ·
interesting, you know I wonder if it may also be due to the lack of support of your subframe and the angle at which your driveshaft meets the front wheels. I am wondering do you have the ride height sensors on your car since you don't have the front active struts? If so, have you tried to 'lower' the car by relocating the ride height sensor arms by either bending or redrilling the attachment point on the sensor arm to see if that helps anything?

Also, I would try tossing on a different set of springs, maybe try Eibachs that lower the car an inch and a half and see if that helps.

Lets see, you mentioned adding the front dogbone mounts which may be worthwhile.

Can you post a pic of your front swaybar links? I'm curious as to what they look like now...

At this point I see you've basically hit every possible angle on this sucker so I'm just throwing out anything I can come up with no matter how crazy it may sound.
 
#208 ·
interesting, you know I wonder if it may also be due to the lack of support of your subframe and the angle at which your driveshaft meets the front wheels. I am wondering do you have the ride height sensors on your car since you don't have the front active struts? If so, have you tried to 'lower' the car by relocating the ride height sensor arms by either bending or redrilling the attachment point on the sensor arm to see if that helps anything?
Also, I would try tossing on a different set of springs, maybe try Eibachs that lower the car an inch and a half and see if that helps.

Lets see, you mentioned adding the front dogbone mounts which may be worthwhile.

Can you post a pic of your front swaybar links? I'm curious as to what they look like now...

At this point I see you've basically hit every possible angle on this sucker so I'm just throwing out anything I can come up with no matter how crazy it may sound.
I have tried adjusting the ride height with the sensor. Only problem being that the springs set the ride height. The load leveling shocks do not affect the ride height with no load in the car. I once removed the airlines to the shocks, disconnected the height sensor linkage and set it as if the car was jacked up a mile high, and drove around the block a few times. This resuled in no rear end droop. It was still at the same height. But I did not try and take the load leveling out of the picture by disconnecting and driving in the 60-75 range. I will try it one of these days. I will get a pic of the sway bar links as soon as I can.

Don
 
#209 ·
Yeah I realize the springs set the height, but if your springs are old they may be sagging somewhat and you might be able to adjust to this which may tighten things up.

I'm really at a loss here, I need to feel this shimmy, it's gotta be something silly, won't you be pissed if after 2 years it ends up being an .02 cent part :)
 
#210 ·
Well my car needed suspension parts due to wear, tear and age, so here I will post what I replaced. The car still shakes between 65 and 73 MPH. The car has 80,000 miles and has had the "shakes" since 55,000 miles. It's a 99 STS.

1- Front lower control arms
2- Front suspension, both sides:
a- strut mount
b- upper insulator
c- dust shield
d- lower insulator
e- strut
f- coil spring
3- Rear suspension, both sides:
a- shock absorber
b- coil spring

Replaced with Monroe shocks and struts, the rest of the parts are stock GM. I have the electronic suspension system, ride control, auto leveling, etc.

I just had the tires balanced and rotated and a 4 wheel alignment.
I've tried these tires, they all give the shakes:

1- Goodyear Eagles
2- General brand tires
3- BF Goodrich Traction T/As (on car now)

Replacing the lower control arms did help with the vibration. The car was shaking violently between 65 and 80 MPH. After replacing them, the vibration was reduced by 80% and the shake range has been reduced to 65-73 MPH. There was a Technical Service Bulletin released by GM for Buicks, Cadillacs and other GM vehicles manufactured from 1998 to 2004 regarding this issue, and their solution was to replace the lower control arms.

The questions I have are this: my vehicle did not exhibit this behavior until I hit around the 50K mile mark (after 6 years), so I am wondering if this is something due to the wear of a part or system of parts no one has attempted replacing yet? How did any of these cars get off the sales lot (new or used), especially since a lot of dealers I've dealt with give the customer at least 2 weeks and even a month to return the car no questions asked (minus the first car payment of course)? If this would have occurred when I purchased the vehicle, I would have spent that first month attempting to fix the problem, and after being unsuccessful I would have returned the car. For most of us, it took time to develop so now we have to live with it.
 
#211 ·
I have been reluctant to change my control arms. I have read several posts of people who have had them changed, and the issue hadn't changed at all. I also have read a few about folks buying the car brand new, and on the trip home from the dealer, experiencing the shimmy. So wear and tear wasn't a factor with their cars. Control arms are expensive. At about $400, I am no longer willing to take the chance, unless I know it is a true fix. Besides, the only wear items on the control arms are the bushings (which do not seem to be available) and the ball joint. The actual aluminum part wouldn't cause the shimmy problem.

Don
 
#213 ·
All four hubs have been replaced. Axle shafts have not. That is another part that has not seemed to solve anyones shimmy. I have gone over this hundreds of times. The only logical solution is that of Logan's. It must have something to do with the engine cradle and how it mounts to the body. Or possibly the spring rates of the springs. The only really confusing part ir that it only affects some cars, and not all of them. In one of the earlier posts (I think in this thread) somebody stated something about the trans being the problem. Again, not a cheap solution attempt. Thanks for the input though.

Don
 
#214 · (Edited)
I'm fighting through a few suspension problems myself. My 99 SLS has a minor (yet annoying) vibration from about 68-75 - most noticable when turning right (curve in the highway).

As others have stated, vibration normally comes from rotating parts and their supporting structures. Wheel balance, rotors, hubs, 1/2 shafts, control arm bushings and in this car's case the support (crossmember?) bushings.

Has anyone replaced the control arm or crossmember busings yet? Part numbers are listed at http://gallery.iametarq.com/cars/cadillac 1998 seville sls/parts list/1998-2004SevillePartsList.pdf
 
#216 ·
I bought 2 2001 SLS's at the same time so imagine my suprise when they BOTH did the same thing.

Outer tie rod ends and hub bearings helped a bunch,,,, now itw the 68-74 mph deal.

I bought inner tie rods today, crawled under and pulled the boots and had a buddy turn the wheel side to side and there was no play there.

What I did see was on the passenger side where the rod goes into the rack there is a collar that slides in and out a bit,,,,, is this normal?

I can feel a clunk if I turn the wheel side to side as hard as I can,,, meaning grab the tire and push in and out.
 
#218 · (Edited)
About a year ago, I replaced the front control arms & bushings as suggested by GM in their TSB from 2004.

Two weeks ago, I replaced the 2 struts in the front, the 2 rear shocks, all 4 coil springs, 2 front strut mounts and dust covers.

Days ago, I changed my BF Goodrich Traction T/A tires to GoodYear ComfortTread tires and of course it helped some since the tires are brand new. I even changed the type of tire -- I went from 235/60/16 to 225/60/16.

I've tried different tires, even different rims but still the shakes. Many on the list have done these same things with no success.

The underlying problem (shimmy/shake) is still there. It's not as obvious as before (it was so bad the front passenger seat would shake violently and all the shaking made me sick after a drive), but it's not all gone.

I guess until I figure this out I'll be buying new tires every 25K miles since this problem has caused my previous tires to wear prematurely. I get my tires rebalanced and rotated every 3,000 miles - that also has not really helped.

Logan suggests changing the cradle mounts and the engine mounts. It seems that we are just dumping money until someone comes up with a solution.

Perhaps we should come up with a master list and just check off things that have not worked. From my memory here is a start:

1- Different brand tires (Goodyear, Michelin, BF Goodrich) and different type of tires from the same manufacturer.
2- Different size tires (235/60/116, 225/60/16)
3- Front control arms and bushings (as per GM TSB 2004)
4- All 4 rotors
5- Both front struts and strut mounts
6- Both rear shocks
7- All 4 coil springs
8- All 4 brakes
9- All 4 wheel hubs
10- All 4 wheel bearings
11- Roadforce Balance the tires (e.g. Hunter)
12- Balance and rotating tires every 3,000 miles
13- Different rims, front to back; back to front; different size rims, different rim manufacturers
14- The motor mounts
15- Axle shafts
16- Inner CV joints
17- Outer CV joints


If anyone can add to the list I would appreciate it; maybe this should be a sticky or something.
 
#219 ·
I have been saying from the beginning that tires cannot be to blame for the shimmy. Today, I do believe that I was wrong. Two days ago I changed my oil, and did a tire rotation. I did not do anything else. Did not get the tires balanced, did not even touch anything suspension related. All I did as remove tires, and put them back on. This morning I was driving to work, and noticed that my shimmy has gotten better. Almost to the point of not being able to feel it. On my way home from work, I purposely drove in the 65-75 mph range. Very little shimmying. I fell in love with the car all over again. Very strange how tires can be affecting our cars like this. I may just get a Hunter RFB for the tires. Just to see if I can get rid of that last little bit of shimmy.

Don
 
#220 ·
Not really anything new to add yet, but I bought my 99 STS recently. Aside from all the other problems needing attention when I got it, this car shimmys as well. Wish I woulda read all this stuff before I wrote the check. Worst case of buyer's remorse I've ever had. I've actually made myself physically ill from being pissed about this car, but I'd take a serious bath on it if I dumped it now. I try to look on the bright side and tell myself the GF is gonna be driving this thing most of the time so I won't have to deal with it.

So far I've bought new tires and rims from Tirerack, and replced the torn front motor mount. Tire rack road force balances the tires when you get em with wheels, so I figured I'd add a little to the cost an go 17" while I'm getting new tires. Anyway, the shimmy is much better but still very much there. Checked for play in the steering and hubs. Seems pretty tight actually. Sometimes it almost goes away, then the road surface chages a little and it comes back. Aerodynamics really does seem to play a factor as the car shimmys less when you go with the wind.

While a killer RFB might go a long way toward reducing the symptom, I'm also convinced the cradle is the problem. The frequency of the shimmy (8-9 Hz?) seems to remain constant regarless of speed. Sometimes when you hit a bump at lower speeds you can get a similar vibe for a split second. Same frequency. I think it's the cradle jostling around like jello with the soft bushings, and at higher speeds it basically begins to resonate its harmonic.
 
#221 ·
Someone seeing this thread for the first time complete with 15,000 views and 220 replies would conclude that each and every '98 to '04 Seville and '00 to 05(?) Deville has this condition. Not true. Why some but not all? Beats me.

My '98 had the condition, but no more. It's a very long boring story but the fix had nothing to do with motor mounts, cradle mounts, tie rod ends, ball joints, axles, bearings or tire/wheel balance.

Within a few months of buying my '04 Deville (same suspension as the '98 to '04 Seville), it displays a trace of steering wheel shake at the magic 65 to 70 MPH. I tested the condition on various road surfaces and in 3rd gear as well as 4th. It would ripple the surface of an open coffee container sitting in the cup holder and you could really "see" the affect when holding a pencil perpendicular to the steering wheel between my fingers.

Took the dealer Service Manager and his vibration monitor for a demo ride. The word came back down the GM food chain; "within acceptable limits".

Applying some of the lessons I learned from my '98, I pulled the front wheels and rotors. Using whatever wire brush tools it required, I removed any and all traces of rust / corrosion from the the hub, both mounting surfaces of the rotors, and the inboard mounting surface of the wheels. I'm talking about shiny squeaky clean mating surfaces. Bolted it all back together using the proper bolt tightening sequence and a two pass torque procedure on the wheel nuts; first pass to 75 lb ft and second pass to 100 lb ft.

Cured.
 
#222 ·
Using whatever wire brush tools it required, I removed any and all traces of rust / corrosion from the the hub, both mounting surfaces of the rotors, and the inboard mounting surface of the wheels. I'm talking about shiny squeaky clean mating surfaces. Bolted it all back together using the proper bolt tightening sequence and a two pass torque procedure on the wheel nuts; first pass to 75 lb ft and second pass to 100 lb ft.

Cured.
Now that you mention it I did clean the rotors with a wire brush. (not perfect but reasonably clean) The rims were brand new. Then I bought a torque wrench just to tighten the wheels. Did basically what you said about the 2 pass. Thought I had the shake down to a survivable level until today when I got the car back from a new rack and motor mount install. I assume they simply threw the wheels on with an impact wrench? The car definately was worse again while driving it home.
 
#224 ·
I have a hard time thinking cradle mouts contribute to this as being a front wheel drive car the cradle is pulling the rest of the car, not mearly along for the ride.

I had mine in today for my 5,000 mile rotate and balance drove the car home and the shake was gone,,,go figure.

Same tires that have been on the car and rotated and balanced twice before, now suddenly they got it right?

I give up
 
#225 ·
:bouncy: JimD........My '02 STS, 39500 mi., has the original 17" Eagle RS-A's with lots of tread left. After I bought the car in 11/04 I did exactly as you did with hub/wheel wire brush cleaning and torque wrench in 3 steps with the wheels off the floor. During 2 Florida and 3 New England runs I have no trace of shake or shimmy. Idea from the past......For a persistent front end vibration, there's a wheel service which spins the tire and wheel on the actual wheel center and measures the out-of-round of the assembly, then, using rotating knives, "shaves" the tire round. It worked on track Jaguars and Healeys.........
 
#226 ·
I had a used 2002 deville, with shake and shimmy at 62-75, it was certified, I had replaced steering rack, front bearings, wheels, tires, road force, lower control arms, rear shocks, upper front control arm, upper mcpherson bushings, tourque converter, engine mounts and a couple of other parts to no avail. I changed cars to a 2004 seville and have the same shake at 68-100, although dealer sys they only have to ttest to 65mph- a little frustrating. I wish I had kept my 98 deville concourse that could drive thru speed bumps and potholes and never develop a shake.
 
#227 · (Edited)
I feel your pain "wooded", as I have done a lot of the same thing.

I have just replaced the tires, struts, mounts, shocks, coils, front rotors and front hubs, and this helped with the shimmy/shake problem, but it's still there. I called the 1-800 Cadillac service department (1-800-333-4CAD) and they are going to work with a local dealer to get this shimmy problem straightened out. I have a case number and a scheduled appointment.

I believe there is no one cure-all solution to this shimmy problem as each individual car has to be inspected and diagnosed. I tried the tire and rim route, the GM TSB route, replacing suspension components, and changing the front hubs, wheel bearings, rotors and brakes so they all have clean surfaces.

The vibration is still there so I have missed a part or two that still needs replaced. The car is a 99 and has 81K miles, so I do expect rust, corrosion, and break downs of the wear and tear parts. Again, I will post what the dealer and GM advise me to do.

By the way, I told GM about this thread (well the customer service person) and how so many owners are having this problem. I don't expect any real action like a recall but at least I spoke my peace.
 
#228 ·
...By the way, I told GM about this thread (well the customer service person) and how so many owners are having this problem. I don't expect any real action like a recall but at least I spoke my peace.
I'd be interested in what they say. At this point I've come to the conclusion my 99 STS is never gonna be anything more than the girlfreind's "drive around town" type of car, as I'm pretty much ready for a fist fight with the dash after more than 10 miles on the highway... or at least I can fire the message thereapist...

Looking at a new GTO and this thing really ruins the whole GM thing for me. I'm actually contemplating a Mustang GT for my own daily driver. Scary.
 
#230 ·
As far as getting what you pay for, Lexus is definitely a grade higher than GM. The LS430 is a beautiful car.

Well, I got my car back and the dealer took care of the shimmy problem by spending 3 hours with the car. They had 2 techs test drive it and then the manager did also.

They rebalanced all the tires but some shake was still there. They said 3 weights were on the inside of one of the front tires (they took those off). They tightened some things and that did the trick but now the car moves to the right (misalignment problem). I am not sure what they tightened but they have "regularly scheduled maintenance" as the line item (at 80,000 miles).

So the shake is gone for now but I need to get an alignment. I have my fingers crossed as I hope the alignment does not re-introduce the shake. I hope it isn't "well you have to live with the shake or the misalignment" type of situation here.

This is the first time in 30,000 miles the car did not shake over 60 MPH. FINALLY!

So what was the solution for me? I am not sure as I have replaced and done so many things in the past 2 years and took the car to the dealer and 5 different garages. I am assuming the "tightening of parts" is what stopped the shimmy. I have to ask the dealer what they tightened.

I will post what happens after the alignment.
 
#231 ·
OK well they did the alignment and the car runs great. No shake/shimmy. Before the alignment the garage removed 3 weights on one of the front tires - all unnecessary. They also did a Road Force Balance for all 4 tires.

It seems not many shops can really balance tires. It's either the machines or the people running them.

Good luck to all.
 
#233 ·
I asked the service dept manager and he said they removed the extra weights on the front rims (tires). I said they had to tighten something - he had no idea. The only thing my invoice said was "scheduled maintenance" on the line item. The car had 80,000 miles on it. They had to do something because right after they had the car the steering wheel felt very tight and the car moved to the right when going in a straight line on a smooth road. It was in alignment when I gave them the car and then afterward it was not. So the manager asked the tech and the tech claims my whole problem was with the weights.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top