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Suspension, Brakes and Tires Discussion, Shake Shimmy STS in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Since I recently got new tires, I was in for the 5000 mile balance and rotate. They had the Hunter ...
  1. #16
    tstach is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Since I recently got new tires, I was in for the 5000 mile balance and rotate. They had the Hunter GSP 9700 machine that they road force balanced the tires on. I had the vibration before they were balanced, but it seems like now it is a little worse and across a wider MPH range than before the tires were rotated and balanced. This leads me to believe that the wheels may be part of the issue.

    What about wheel torque? Of course, they cranked the lugs down with an impact, so I always re-torque all lug nuts. The only problem is that my torque wrench only goes to 80 ft-lb. I believe the spec calls for 100 ft-lb. I shouldn't be creating any potential for warping, however, could 80 be too loose?

    The shimmy is not in the steering wheel nor is it in the brake pedal. I can feel it the most when my foor RESTS on the gas pedal while driving between 63-78 MPH. With the cruise on and my foot off the gas pedal, I can still feel the vibration a little through the seat.

    The odd thing about this is that when I bought this car, in 2002, the dealer put new OEM Eagle LS tires on it. I had the vibration problem immediately. They did an alignment, rotation and re-balance of the tires and I never had the vibration problem again. Now, this is with the Eagle LS', that seem to be a big problem.

    I now have Michelin MXV4 Plus tires all the way around and have had them road force balanced once. Could be that the guy balancing the tires didn't know what he was doing. I'm at 81k miles and really don't want to think about dealing with strut replacement until sometime after 100k miles. The car has been mainly driven on the highway and has no other problems.

  2. #17
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Soooo. If I have this right, switching the tires front to back doesn't change anything. You don't feel the shimmy in the steering wheel or brake pedal either but in the butt.
    My guess is that your (car's) rearend needs alignment. Did you ever get a 4-wheel alignment. Read about it at Hunter.

  3. #18
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    When I got the new tires put on, they supposedly did a 4-wheel alignment as part of the overall tire package.

    I plan to take it in this month for another one. I'll post results.

  4. #19
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Sometime in the future (read before the summer) I am going to do some testing. I am beginning to think that the "shimmy" problem with our cars, is aerodynamic. I am considering using tape and cardboard, to "adjust" the underside of the car. Like the area right below the radiator, and the area just in front of the rear bumper. I was involved in an accident back in April, where I was rear ended. As a result of the accident, my car was "shimmying" more than usual. I checked under the car, and noticed that the bumper cover, had come loose. I used tie wraps, and secured the bumper back on. The shimmy became "normal" again. Also, and this may sound wierd, the car shimmies more, coming home from work, than going to work. Now, the same thing happens on my Harley. The only thing I can attribute to this, is the wind. There almost always seems to be a headwind, while coming home from work, and a tailwind, going to work. I am thinking that the wind that gets underneath the car, is hitting something that is sticking down, or shaped like a scoop, and causing this situation. I know that this is a stretch, but I am going to give it a try.

    Don

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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Don, I don't want to discourage you but FWIW, my '99 STS does not shimmy at any speed up to 90mph. That's as fast as I have pushed it. And it gets pretty windy here in the land of Oz.

    Now my old Kaw H2 750 would pick up a shimmy. One time it was so bad it threw me off at 114mph on a drag strip. I don't know if it was weather, track or bike condition or any/all of the above.

  6. #21
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    2001....

    Have done both tie rods. 35 psi. Michilens.

    Here is something I found today in the electronic service manual.

    Brake hardware replacement. Apparently, there is a newer version front replacement caliper bolt. It is a non-tapered bolt non-rubber bushing design.

    My dealer had no idea. I had him look up GM document 800385.

    "When sevicing a brake caliper equipped with the first design hardware it will be replaced with the second design hardware. The second design kit contiains NIGLUBE and redesigned caliper pins."


    The kit part # is 18046666. Ordered mine from GMpartsdiect.com today. 2 kits for a total of $43.

    My calipers seem to have a lot of wiggle.....I wonder if its a dancing/vibrating caliper issue? The current tappered bolt with rubber bushing would seem to create a lot of vibration.


    Also tires. Next time....I would suggest trying the Michilens available from Cadillac. They are more expensive, but they have been tested for load variation. What you are looking for is the GM part # Michilens, not simply a Cadillac dealer selling Michilins.

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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Here is the reason that I do not agree that the shimmy we are feeling is tire related. When I first bought my car, it had the Symmetry tires on it. On the drive home from the dealer, the car was shimmying. The next day, I had new Good Year Assurance tires installed, with an alignment. The car still shimmied. I later had new aftermarket wheels installed, the car still shimmied. I had them Hunter Road Force Balanced, and the shimmy felt worse. I then installed new Kumho tires, the car still shimmied. I now have newer Kumho tires, with a new set of wheels, in 18" instead of 16", and the car still shimmies (although much less). The Good Years are currently on my brother-in-laws '93 Lincoln Mark VIII. The car rides smooth as glass. The Kumho's, with the aftermarket wheels, are currently on my sisters '95 Pontias Bonneville. The car rides smooth as glass. Anyone who has had the tires fix the shimmy, hasn't really fixed the problem. The Michelin's, may have a different sidewall, or something, which aids in masking the situation from the driver. I am not sure. But, four sets of tires, and three sets of wheels, cannot all be bad. The odds of that is rather small.

    Don

  8. #23
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    I think Dadillac has raised a number of excellent issues that often get overlooked. I have had the Hunter Road Force balance performed and the problem seemed slightly worse. The dealer changed the lower control arms based upon Cadillac's suggested procedures, and nothing changed. I recently had the tires rotated and the problem seems slightly better, but not gone.

    The fact that tires that supposedly cause this shimmy work perfectly well on other cars tells me there has to be more to this than we are seeing. Additionally if you read the posts, some people swear Michelin tires have solved the problems, and others see no improvement after spending hundreds of dollars. As I have stated before, I am disappointed that Cadillac has not used its resources to better identify the problem and solution.

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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Those are good points Dadillac and JPL189. My symptoms are very similar. Road force balancing did not cure. And as I had mentioned before, the Eagle LS' did not vibrate at all during the 3 years I had them on the car. I always wondered why my LS' wern't problematic like they were on many other owner's cars who post here, but now the Michelins are.

    Maybe it's not the tire after all. I'm going to check my pressure this weekend and try 35PSI as mentioned by Logandiagnostic.

    Todd

  10. #25
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    Exclamation Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    I agree...there cannot be that many bad tires...that being said, the best road force ones can be found under a GM part # at Cadillac.

    I also agree, there is something wrong with the some part etc with these cars. Everyone has the same issue with 65-70 mph vibration.

    One issue may be the caliper bolts. Most cars will have a tapered bolt with bushing in the caliper. I look at how much mine wiggles by hand....imagine 65-70 mph.

    It is some type of harmonics issue with the car.

    Note:

    There has been a non bushing style caliper bolt issued. I ordered mine earlier today.

    There have been new control arms issued. No fix.

    It could be a motor mount issue. Early '90s Foad Taurus had a similar engine mounted design with 4 lower mounts. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Problem was never really fixed.

    The early cars used upper dogbone mounts. These do not.


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    Exclamation Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Here is a pic of the solid caliper bolt style...

  12. #27
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Logan, what is involved with the install of the caliper pin kit? Is there any machining that needs to be done? Any bushings that require a press? Let us all know how it goes. For that price, as long as it makes an improvement, will be worth it.

    Don

  13. #28
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    Exclamation Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Remove old bolt, dig out the rubber bushing, clean the old grease out.

    The solid bolts come with some special grease called NIGLUBE. Never heard of it.

    These should snug up the caliper a bunch. My local dealer was unaware of this kit. After some pushing he found it under 2002 Deville. He had one kit in stock.

    Its kind of strange....no bulletin etc. But the way the replacement is worded: "...the first design will be replaced with the second design hardware...." Almost military order...

    Figure a week getting the parts from www.gmpartsdirect.com


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  14. #29
    tstach is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    Thanks Logan for the info. I guess at this point, if the new caliper bolt is the fix, it would be a cheap one.

    What do you mean by:

    "There have been new control arms issued. No fix."?

    Let us know how this works out.

  15. #30
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    Exclamation Re: Shake Shimmy STS

    There have been some new control arms released. People who have had the arms replaced suggust it does not fix the problem. Here is the TSB:





    Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels)
    1998-2004 Buick Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra

    2000-2004 Buick LeSabre

    1998-2004 Cadillac Seville (SLS, STS)

    2000-2004 Cadillac DeVille (DTS only)

    2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora

    2000-2004 Pontiac Bonneville (17" Tires only)

    This bulletin is being revised to add the 2004 model year and delete the screened tire program information for all tire manufacturers except for Continental General. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-03-10-007E (Section 03 - Suspension).

    Condition
    Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel, floor or seat while driving at highway speeds (typically between 60-72 mph (96-115 km/h)) on smooth roads.

    Cause
    These specific vehicles may be sensitive to various rotating mass assemblies, especially if they are considered to be out-of-balance.

    Correction
    Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence of the following conditions and correct as necessary.
    Missing balance weights
    Bent rim flange
    Irregular tire wear
    Incomplete bead seating
    Tire irregularities
    Mud/ice build-up in wheel
    Stones in the tire tread
    Set the tire pressure to 30 psi (205 kPa) COLD.
    Road test the vehicle with the Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA) essential tool for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road surface to duplicate the condition. Record the Hertz (Hz) reading as displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting.
    If the road test indicates a shake/vibration still exists, check the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated, off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close to zero as possible.

    Important
    Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer. This will simplify Step 5 by not requiring dial indicators. If a Hunter GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial force of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs or less.


    While on the balancer, measure wheel runout. If radial or lateral runout exceeds .020 in (0.50 mm) for aluminum wheels (.030 in (0.76 mm) for steel wheels), replace the wheel.
    After confirming wheel balance and wheel runout, if any changes were made, road test the vehicle again.
    If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists:

    Important
    The completed worksheet must be attached to the hard copy of the repair order.


    Record Radial Force Variation readings if you have access to Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Balance equipment. Use the worksheet found at the end of this bulletin to record the readings.
    If one or more of the tires have RFV readings in excess of 18 lbs, match mount the tires to get below 18 lbs. Readings of 12 lbs. or less are preferable for critical customer concerns.
    If the RFV can not be reduced to an acceptable level, replace the affected tire with one obtained locally.
    The screened tire program is no longer in effect for Bridgestone/Firestone, Goodyear and Michelin. Low speed screened tires are available from Continental General only, and only for the Buick LeSabre.
    Road test the vehicle to ensure the shake/vibration has been resolved.
    Replace both lower control arms on vehicles built prior to the following VIN breakpoints. On Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra and Seville models, a newly developed hydro-bushing lower control arm with improved damping characteristics has been released. This control arm is not used on the LeSabre. The new lower control arms may provide an incremental improvement to the vehicle ride. Customers who have become "tuned in" to the shake condition may still feel some shake in the vehicle after the new lower control arms are installed. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement in SI (refer to the Parts Information table below for SI document ID numbers).

    Important
    THE CONTROL ARMS SHOULD ONLY BE INSTALLED ON VEHICLES IF, AFTER THE TIRE AND WHEEL DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIRS HAVE BEEN PERFORMED, THE VIBRATION CONDITION STILL EXISTS.


    Model
    VIN

    Park Avenue
    34175493

    Seville (SLS, STS)
    3U247643

    DeVille (DTS only)
    3U247644

    Aurora
    34175503

    Bonneville
    34175497


    Parts Information
    P/N
    Description
    SI Document

    25746324
    Lower Control Arm, Left (Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra, Seville)
    Aurora -- 639351

    Bonneville -- 657809

    DeVille w/FE1, FE3 -- 724856

    DeVille w/FE7 -- 724858

    Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra -- 657760

    Seville -- 539332

    25746325
    Lower Control Arm, Right (Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra, Seville)


    Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

    Warranty Information
    For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

    Labor Operation
    Description
    Labor Time

    E0901
    High Speed Tire Shake
    0.8 hr

    Add
    Measure Tire/Wheel Asm., Runout and Re-balance
    1.3 hrs

    Add
    Replace Tire and/or Wheel - Each
    0.2 hr

    E3537
    Arm Assembly, Front Control -- Replace
    Use Published Labor Operation Time



    Screened Tire Request Form (Bulletin 00-03-10-007F)

    Fax Instructions:

    Continental General : 888-847-3329





    Here is the GM document 800385:


    Support the brake caliper with heavy mechanic's wire, or equivalent, whenever it is separated from its mount and the hydraulic flexible brake hose is still connected. Failure to support the caliper in this manner will cause the flexible brake hose to bear the weight of the caliper, which may cause damage to the brake hose and in turn may cause a brake fluid leak.


    Remove the brake caliper from the mounting bracket and support the brake caliper (2) with heavy mechanic's wire (1), or equivalent; do NOT disconnect the hydraulic brake flexible hose from the caliper. Refer to Brake Caliper Replacement - Front .



    Remove the brake pads (2) from the brake caliper bracket.
    Remove the brake pad retainers (1) from the brake caliper bracket.



    Remove the brake caliper bracket. Refer to Brake Caliper Bracket Replacement - Front .
    Mount the brake caliper bracket (1) in a vise.
    Using a flat bladed tool carefully remove the pin bolt boots (2) from brake caliper bracket (1) and discard.



    Remove the bushings (2) by carefully inserting a small screw driver into the brake caliper pin bolt bushing.
    Rotate and pull the bushing outward to remove.

    Important
    Clean all parts in clean, denatured alcohol.
    Dry with low pressure, non-lubricated, filtered air.

    Inspect the brake caliper bracket for cracks. If cracked, replace bracket.
    Installation Procedure





    Important
    When servicing a brake caliper equipped with the first design caliper hardware it will be replaced with the second design hardware. The second design hardware kit contains NIGLUBE lubricant and redesigned caliper pins. The second design hardware kit does not use bushings in the brake caliper mounting bores.


    Using NIGLUBE provided in the hardware kit, lubricate the following:
    Lubricate the bores (3)
    Lubricate the inside of the pin boots (2)
    Lubricate the new caliper pin bolts (4)
    Install the new caliper pin boots (2) to the caliper mounting bracket.



    Install the brake caliper bracket (3). Refer to Brake Caliper Bracket Replacement - Front .
    Install the brake pad retainers (1) to the caliper bracket.
    Install the brake pads (2) to the caliper bracket.
    Remove the heavy mechanics wire.
    Install the brake caliper. Refer to Brake Caliper Replacement - Front .

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Document ID# 800385



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