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Suspension, Brakes and Tires Discussion, 5,500 for new shocks!!!? in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Originally posted by elwesso Why would you want a house, your caddy has heat, AC, and a big comfy couch..... ...
  1. #16
    Ralph's Avatar
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    Originally posted by elwesso
    Why would you want a house, your caddy has heat, AC, and a big comfy couch..... What more do you need????

    (maybe just a TV and your laptop so you can talk to us)
    I think the new Jags have the tv's on the back of the headrests, no need for a house really. And the new Volvo s80's have a little refridgerator between the seats in back!!

  2. #17
    kcnewell is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    There are passives for that car as far as I know Ralph....Mine were about $70 each or something like that.....I installed them myself. It's a bit of a job but it's doable!

  3. #18
    Ralph's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kcnewell
    There are passives for that car as far as I know Ralph....Mine were about $70 each or something like that.....I installed them myself. It's a bit of a job but it's doable!
    That does put my mind at ease, especially for the long haul when I get highmileage at some point. I guess only the dealer can program it like you mentioned before, to ignore or forget the air shocks are gone. Thanks for the info, now I'm not so paniky about getting rid of it!

  4. #19
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    KC, what was your mileage when your ccr went on you, and what was the cause of the air leak? (I assume the problem would be an air leak on these?)

  5. #20
    Maximln is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    The "CCR" system came out on the 91 and 92 models. It stands for Computer Command Ride. The name was changed in 1993 on the Deville and Sixty Special (the "Fleetwood" name was dropped from the FWD cars due to the new RWD Fleetwood) to "SSS" which stands for Speed Sensitive Suspension. What this system does is based on vehicle speed, the computer can change the damping on each individual strut between "Normal," "Firm," and "Soft" to give the best ride again depending on vehicle speed. This is different from the "RSS" (Road Sensing Suspension) that was offered on the 93-95 Northstar Cadillacs that used a wheel position sensor at each wheel to determine road surface and adjusted the four struts individually in about 1/10th of a second between "firm" and "soft" to give the optimum ride on any road surface. It was changed again in 1996 to CVRSS (Continuously Variable Road Sensing Suspension) that was similar to the RSS except that the system could control the damping from "firm" to "soft" and any position in between depending on the input to the computer. Braking, accelerating, cornering all also have input to the CVRSS module to control damping.

    This system is seperate from the Electronic Level Control System that utilizes an air compressor and exhaust valve to inflate or exhaust the rear suspension according to the weight in the car. Without RSS (or CVRSS) the ELC uses a height control module to determine rear height and inflate/exhaust the rear shocks. With RSS (or CVRSS) the rear height is determined by the rear wheel position sensors. The rear shocks with the ELC and CCR, SSS, RSS, or CVRSS contain an air chamber to inflate/exhaust the shocks as well as an electrical solenoid to change the damping mode which again is all integral with the rear shocks. The front struts do not have an air chamber, only the electrical solenoid to change the damping mode.

    When the electrical portion of the shock/strut fails, the computer can no longer control the damping mode of that shock/strut and will illuminate the "Service CCR," Service SSS" light or display the message "SERVICE RIDE CONTROL" in the DIC that everyone dreads. When these messages are displayed, it means that the electrical portion of the shock/strut has failed and needs to be replace and the computer usually commands all 4 shocks/struts to the full "FIRM" mode. You can still drive the car and it won't hurt anything other than the ride is usually a little more firm and that blasted message is always on. This usually has no effect on the ELC system. It will still function normally.

    The reason it is so expensive to replace is that each shock usually costs around $700 due to the electronics of it. You can usually get a passive replacement that has no electronics for a lot less but then you have to go through the hassle of finding a way do disable the message or just live with it.

    I hope this clears a few things up.

    Max

  6. #21
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    Wow, you know suspensions, and thanks for the info. You mentiioned the CCR fails when there is an electrical failure, I thought there also could be an air leak causing the system to fail? I looked under the rear of the car and there are a lot of wires and connections, etc. I hope that if I have to winter drive her, I don't damage any electricals by flushing out the underside!

  7. #22
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    elwesso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    I dont think you will damage anything........

    It has been known that you can replace just the sensor thingy atop the strut and it will be OK...... Apparently most of the time its not the strut that fails, but the electronic sensor/solenoid that fails......

    Correct me if im wrong, but I think you could detach the solenoid from the later SSS and not from the CCR (or at least without damaging the strut).....

  8. #23
    Maximln is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    There really is no "electronic" means to monitor an air leak in the ELC system. If you do have a small leak, the compressor will come on intermittenly to keep the rear level. If there is a massive leak, the compressor will continuously run, trying to maintain rear height, and will shut off after about 7 minutes so as not to damage the compressor. With an air leak, the rear of the car will ride very low and you will feel all the bumps. Now an air leak doesn't necessarily mean the shock is bad. If the rubber boot itself is leaking, the shock will have to be replaced to obtain a "normal" level ride.

    Again, if the electronic portion of the strut/shock fails (by electronic portion I mean the solenoid in the shock/strut or the computer controlling it), the computer will no longer be able to adjust the damping of the shock, which means the system cannot change the ride to "firm" or "soft" but the car can still be driven normally but will usually stay in the "firm" mode and the message will be continuously displayed. Again, a failure in the CCR system will not affect the ELC system or vice versa.

    Ralph-Your vehicle was equipped with CCR system and the ELC system as standard equipment which again are 2 seperate systems. As for damaging the electrical connections, it would be pretty hard unless the connections were loose or damaged. They were designed to resist the elements.

    Elwesso-I'm not sure about being able to detach the solenoid. I've never heard of that. Even if it were possible, what would be the point? You would have an unattached sensor which would cause a message to be illuminated and the strut would act the same if the sensor were attached so it really wouldn't make that much sense. With all the turmoil that everyone seems to go through trying to replace the electronic struts/shocks with non-electronic passive struts/shocks, it would be too easy of a fix.

    Max

  9. #24
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    Max, I heard somewhere that if they REPLACE the solenoid that it will fix it........ Apparently the strut doesnt fail, but the solenoid does..... Again, I am not sure about it.....

  10. #25
    Maximln is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    That would have been an easy and inexpensive fix for Cadillac to do but unfortunately they did not do that. The electronics are integral with the shock/strut and has to be replaced as a whole unit.

    It's too bad that there isn't some sort of aftermarket company like Logan Diagnostics that could repair the shock/strut but I guess it would be rather difficult to remove the shock/strut and then send it for repairs since the vehicle would be inoperable.

    Max

  11. #26
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    Originally posted by Maximln
    That would have been an easy and inexpensive fix for Cadillac to do but unfortunately they did not do that. The electronics are integral with the shock/strut and has to be replaced as a whole unit.

    It's too bad that there isn't some sort of aftermarket company like Logan Diagnostics that could repair the shock/strut but I guess it would be rather difficult to remove the shock/strut and then send it for repairs since the vehicle would be inoperable.

    Max
    I think it's stupid to put the electronics in the shock itself! Just about as stupid as putting the fuel pump in the gas tank, so they get more labour removing the gas tank to get at it.

  12. #27
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    I have my fuel pump in the gas tank.... And all you have to do is remove the lining inbetween the trunk and the tank, unscrew a couple things, and out she comes!!

    Besides, there is NO more room under the hood!

  13. #28
    speedyguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Personally I would go passive but the cost of electronic and air struts are starting to come down as the need increases. It’s a numbers game as I am sure you all know.

    Ty

  14. #29
    timber6860 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    I just replaced the front struts with the passive struts on my 93 Deville at the dealer ($650.00 with the wheel alignment), and I actually like the ride better now than when new. The car does not glide, or float, I can feel the road now. Mine had the SSS (speed sensitive suspension/speed sensitive steering).

    The thing is, they were not able to disconnect the dummy light, and I had to put a piece of electrical tape over it, and I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of this system, and in particular whether or not the steering system is linked to the suspension system?

  15. #30
    Maximln is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    How about simply removing the bulb?

    Max

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