I think ATS-Y is a better name -- Y U NO USE V8?
I think ATS-Y is a better name -- Y U NO USE V8?
It's a brave new world.
A bit late, but just one quick comment on the the V-6 vs I-6 debate.
The I-6, while it may have some packaging issues with respect to its length, is a naturally-balanced configuration with two cylinders always at 120 deg to each of the other two pairs making counterbalancing a bit easier and a very smooth motor. Not saying the V-6 can't be smooth, just that it takes a little more effort on the part of the designers.
'05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels, plus a couple more. Mustang dyno'd at 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ.
The M3 will have around 430 horsepower. The only way the ATS-V is getting a V8 is if they can't bring the twin turbo V6 to the table in time.
Underachieving because they want to aim low is not going to earn GM any respect.
The ATS-V, as an Expensive Small High-Performance car, is worthy of a V8 as much as any large expensive car.
A V8 would make it an epic performance car with huge tuning potential.
A V6-TT would make it something that becomes quickly obsolete.
I'm really surprized to hear people on this forum are willing to settle for mediocrity, when perfection is so easily attainable with proven technology.
You might have inside information, regarding the V6-TT, I am dissapointed if what you say is true.
Although GM could still get it right, right?
Is there any hope left?
Then executives at the company have the craniums up their keisters. Yeah, I get the long-term. Sure, develop a powerful turbo V6. Put it in the next CTS in a model that slots below the CTS-V (and fill that product gap). But the ATS-V is a performance niche, not a mainstream product. Its impact on CAFE is negligible no matter what's under the hood -- but its impact on the brand is devastating if it stumbles. In some ways it needs to be more conservative, not more radical. Prove the TTV6's mettle elsewhere, then drop a hotter version in the A when it's not such a huge leap of faith.Cadillac is trying to stay away from V8s in all but it's most expensive LARGE vehicles.
Then again, the XLR-V and STS-V had such a huge impact on the brand, and the turbo SRX sold like hotcakes...
Last edited by Jinx; 10-19-12 at 03:12 PM. Reason: added quote
How is the 335i obsolete? The turbo straight six at BMW has a ton of aftermarket support and now that a similar engine is going into the M3, it'll have even more.
"No V8" is not "in cement" at this point in time but more people inside Cadillac want the TT V6 than the V8 and from what I hear, nobody is presenting valid arguments for the V8.
CAN they fit a V8? Sure. Sure, they can probably bring us an ATS-V with 600 horsepower. But that's overkill for the goal. A V8 is always an option if BMW or other competition pulls something stronger out of their sleeve...
There really is no such thing as overkill when it comes to performance.
Who here wants cheap easy HP taken off the table?
Honestly, I'm not surprized that GM is hoping to con us into accepting a lesser engine, instead of the real thing.
They probably hope it will tank, as I bet most insiders at GM don't even want a V Series.
Also, aftermarket tuning potential would not be one of their concerns either.
Aren't fast cars adolescent and irresponsible?
It's just sad they are going back to their practice of aiming low instead of going for the kill.
There is no excuse when they have the star engine sitting on the shelf screaming to be put in the game.
I have a problem buying into a half hearted ATS-V effort.
Last edited by lunarx; 10-19-12 at 05:53 PM.
Just an FYI - I'd rather see a V8 as well. I'd never complain if the ATS-V turned out to be a monster that "blew the doors off" the GTR. I just understand Cadillac's point of view and don't feel they're giving us a half-hearted attempt at giving Cadillac enthusiasts what they want - a viable alternative - OR better - than what's available at BMW.
"...the ATS-V CAN perform better than the M3 without a V8."
This is true. I'm sure GM Powertrain still has engineers who can build on the excellent V6 and the I4 turbocharging knowledgebase and produce a great engine... if they're given the job and given enough time to work through the challenges. But will GM make that investment? Will they stay focused on the task long enough for it to survive the scrutiny that will befall a BMW M3 competitor? This engine has to be good enough to replace the Corvette LS3 V8 on Day One. Anything less is half-hearted. Sure, GM has a lot riding on a turbo V6, if it needs one for full-size pickups, but that's a different target; the 450hp screamer that an M3 competitor needs requires its own brief. GM has just doubled-down on the Corvette V8; does it make business sense to build a direct competitor at the same time? They have limited resources, and global products with far more impact on the next several quarters that need GM Powertrain's best efforts.
I would be incredibly impressed to learn that GM had the vision and depth to make that kind of investment. I just don't think it's likely. It think it's more likely to be a let's-try-something good-enough-for-now more-important-work-is-waiting effort. I think of many well-they-tried and because-the-competition-has-one engines in GM's past. And I say, "prove me wrong."
Give it up Sal, you are arguing with a wall.
Seems like we all want a V8, as our 1st choice.
Glad to hear that.
A V8 would be sweet. A lot of aftermarket support out their. Put a supercharger on it and it will have some serious horsepower. It will surprise a lot of people and be a blast to drive.
6.2L V8 for the ATS-V.
6.2L supercharged V8 for the CTS-V.
Makes the most sense to most of the potential buyers of the ATS-V.
Sorry, but I've seen turbo SHOs put a whuppin' on Z06s in standing miles. And that's with FWD and traction issues. Half hearted nothing if it's done right...Originally Posted by lunarx