Thoughts....Vehicle trading - Page 3
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48
Like Tree32Likes
RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, Thoughts....Vehicle trading in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I suppose I could possibly fund the strippers later.......
  1. #31
    purepearl32 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham (307), 1993 FWB (350 TBI)
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    65

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    I suppose I could possibly fund the strippers later....

  2. #32
    talismandave's Avatar
    talismandave is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham, 1974 Fleetwood Talisman, Volvo C70,
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Madison WI
    Age
    55
    Posts
    6,132

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Well, as they say....everybody has one and they all stink. So allow me to spread my cheeks and share my opinion.

    You would be certifiable to trade that convertible for a Talisman, unless the Talisman was perfect.

    Now to the other issues at hand.

    Initial quality studies are BS. Always have been and should be ignore by and large.
    They count a screw coming out of a door panel with the same weight as a transmission failure.

    Same goes for any satisfaction surveys. They merely measure expectations vs perception. They can be handy to manufacturers, who are trained to read them and understand them, but useless, or worse misleading to the public.

    One humorous example was when I sold Pontiacs in the 80's we did our own internal studies of our brands buyers. Every six month we got a report of the findings.
    Based on them, the Pontiac T1000 (Chevette) was the highest quality vehicle we sold! Followed closely by the J2000 (Cavalier)!

    Buyer of them wanted basic transportation and were coming from beater old cars. They were happy and would not complain about a squeak in the dash. The Bonneville and Grand Prix buyer were coming out of newer better quality cars, and expecting them to be perfect. Where a T1000 or J2000 buyer would find a screw on the floor mat and throw it away, the premium buyers would schedule a service appointment to find where it came from.

    I have owned 2 Talismans and four "74-"76 Cadillacs. I love them and have never had any problems of fit and finish. None of the cars of the era were great, but the Cadillac were no worse than the majority of American manufacturers.

    They were built out of the worst quality steel I have ever seen. I swear they came with rust built in. They did crappy short-cuts like unfinished metal under the vinyl tops a and unfinished welds under the roof. They cut a lot of corners.

    All of mine were great, dependable, fun, and comfortable. Especially the Talisman.
    I highly recommend one. Really recommend one!

    I agree with Bro-Ham and love the "over-the-top" and outrageous styling and appointments. I understand those who it is not their thing. It is like starting a thread "What color should a Cadillac be?", or "How high is "up"?"

    If you think you would like a Talisman, you are wrong. You would LOVE one!

    I doubt they will ever be valuable in our lifetimes. While they only made a few thousand of them in the three years and many have been scrapped, there just aren't enough people who know, or care, they exist. They are the ultimate Holy Grail of a car that the public at large don't care about.

    If you can buy it cheap, fix it a little with some backyard work, and enjoy driving it. If you are hooked, look for a rust free straight one, and pony up some big money for it. You will save money in the end.

    That's my 2 cents....carry on.

  3. #33
    Aron9000's Avatar
    Aron9000 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    5,220

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Dude you're crazy trading a NICE 1967 convertible for a hunk of junk 76 Talisman. Yeah the Talisman is the car to have for that 70's vintage Cadillac, but man the 60's Cadillacs are just much nicer cars. Better built, nicer interiors, no emissions to pass(yes that 76 would have to pass emissions where I live), better styling. Cadillac IMO went into a serious slide with styling, driving dynamics, and quality with the 71-76 cars. IMO top spec Olds 98's, Buick Riverias, and Electras had better built and styled interiors compared to Cadillac, not to mention what Lincoln was doing with the Mark cars. Things improved A LOT in terms of quality and road manners with the 76 Seville and 77 Deville/Fleetwood.

  4. #34
    Captdees is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1979 Phaeton, 1967 Convertible, 1975 Talisman
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kathleen Georgia
    Posts
    58

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    The reason I asked the question here is because I knew if I was going with my own mind the talisman would have already been on its way to Georgia. Obviously there is a ton of knowledge and experience here on this forum and I respect ya'lls opinion, so I thought what better way to get the naked truth even though it's not what I wanted to hear. I mean after all who can argue with the voice of reason.

  5. #35
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Now: 95, 86, & 76 Fleetwood Brougham Past: 83 CDV, 92 Fltwd
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Binghamton, New York.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    46

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Aron9000 View Post
    ... Cadillac IMO went into a serious slide with styling, driving dynamics, and quality with the 71-76 cars. ... Things improved A LOT in terms of quality and road manners with the 76 Seville and 77 Deville/Fleetwood.
    It is interesting when road manners are mentioned in reference to classic Cadillacs considering that is not what the cars are about. I'll agree 76+ Seville and 77+ DeVille/Fleetwood have better handling and it can be nice at times, but to me that is part of the serious slide of which you speak. Those 70s cars were never about handling; they were about that smooth, soft, floaty, effortless ride. To get that, things like firmness and cornering were sacrificed since they were at odds with comfort. What makes those 70s cars desirable IS that comfort-oriented mushy ride - a ride which can no longer be remotely found in any car made this century.

    In an era when morons who write for Car and Driver magazine complain that a modern Chevy Impala with a firm-leaning suspension is soft and mushy, especially when that car could run circles around many 70s performance cars, you can see that one major appeal of 70s Cadillac is the ride. In fact, in many ways they are the antithesis of today's cars. Some people hate them, but those who love them do so not in spite of the lack of road manners, but because of it. The real slide of Cadillac started when they turned to paying attention to the road manners of which you speak. It was ok in the beginning (like the 77 DeVilles, which also had a tighter build), but now that seems to be all they focus on and they have become nothing but an also-ran, chasing on the heels of Mercedes and BMW, both of whom do road manners as Cadillac never should. The build quality was down a bit from the 60s, but the 70s cars are still well-made, stylish, reliable cars, from a time when Cadillac was on top and owning American luxury was an event. Many other cars can give road manners, but no car gave comfort and excess like a 70s, 5200 pound, 19.5 foot-long Cadillac.
    the APEMAN and talismandave like this.

  6. #36
    talismandave's Avatar
    talismandave is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham, 1974 Fleetwood Talisman, Volvo C70,
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Madison WI
    Age
    55
    Posts
    6,132

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Well said Lord Fleetwood, You are my kind of guy!

  7. #37
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Now: 95, 86, & 76 Fleetwood Brougham Past: 83 CDV, 92 Fltwd
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Binghamton, New York.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    46

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Quote Originally Posted by talismandave View Post
    Well said Lord Fleetwood, You are my kind of guy!
    Thanks! I just wish the modern car manufacturer would acknowledge people like us still exist. I'm so sick of every car having to be a "sporty" stubby econo-box and seeing cars under 200 inches long that barely seat five people classified as "full-sized." Driving my 76 Fleetwood is completely different. The steering is effortless. The car floats over bumps and glides through turns. The interior room is enormous, and with a few modifications, the 500 ci engine is smooth, powerful and overloaded with torque and gives you what you need with no mind of trying to conserve. The thing turns head everywhere it goes and people will go out of their way to come up and talk about it. And all those people lament the loss of such cars and tell me to keep it in shape since there will never be anything like it again.


    I'm not against better efficiency or sporty cars and let those who want Priuses or BMWs have them, but just one car of true excess would be nice for those of us who don't want to settle for the rest. With today's technology a massive car like the Fleetwood could be built better than ever before and truly be the "standard of the world". Unfortunately car manufacturers don't want to spend the time or money making vehicles that are works of art when they can put a larger engine and an "L" emblem on a Toyota and sell it for $50,000.

  8. #38
    Aron9000's Avatar
    Aron9000 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    5,220

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    ^ Let me clarify "a bit" what I mean by driving dynamics. IE acceleration, the 60's cars were faster. Handling/steering, its nice when the car tracks straight down the road and the steering isn't so overboosted/numb on center it requires constant corrections. Or that if you push it even a little bit on a off-ramp or on ramp on the highway it doesn't completely lean over on its door handles and howl the tires. I know the GM cars were a lot better to drive than Fords of that era, but driving a 77 vs a 76 car, its a pretty stark contrast. A 60's car might not drive/handle any nicer though so I guess its a moot point.

  9. #39
    Bro-Ham's Avatar
    Bro-Ham is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1979 Cadillac Sedan deVille d'Elegance
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Aron9000 View Post
    ...driving a 77 vs a 76 car, its a pretty stark contrast...
    I owned a 1976 Fleetwood Brougham just over a decade ago which had only 9,000 miles when I acquired it. I recall it was a very satisfying car to drive, hardly a "stark contrast" to the 1977+ Cadillacs. I also had a 1975 Buick Electra at the same time which I equally enjoyed. Wish I had both of those cars still - two separate apparently very wise men pried both cars from my ownership with very large bribes. At the time I delighted in the profits and now I wish those cars were sticking out of my garage!

  10. #40
    the APEMAN is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1980 FBC
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    52
    Posts
    190

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Pre '77 Cadillacs handled fairly well with only a hint of road feedback. They certainly weren't loose. Handling was predictable. They had a lot more traction than the later cars which needed positraction.

    I went straight from a 500 powered '71 CDV into a '77 CDV back in the summer of 1984.

    The '77's manners over 100 mph were no better than the '71's and the older car rode much better even though it had silly replacement springs.

    Sitting in the '77 when being used to the older car reminded me of economizing in every direction. It seemed like the windshield was 2 feet closer to my face. The air conditioning on the older car was good enough to give the driver a heart attack. They were GMs not Cadillacs by then. Only the beefier TH-400, 12 bolt guts in the rear axle, automatic climate control and engines remained as stand outs from the other GM full sized rides. The Olds 403 offered better performance than a Cad 425 with only slightly less economy.

    The '77 was pretty much mechanically reconditioned over several months before ever driving it far. I was waiting to sell the older car before changing the plates over.

    I thought something was seriously wrong with the carbonator calibration because driving at highway speed was the feeling of a power flat spot. I considered ripping into things until the car went over 300 miles between fill ups on combination highway and city driving!!! After that I was sold on flat spot feeling equaling economy.

    Internet information can be completely different than first hand information. I see the same thing with whiz-bang suits at work. They all come from I.T. and live by buzz words. After they sit around in a circle for a few sessions reality completely evaporates. Part of my job is to explain how non I.T. equipment really works, over and over.

    Car ragizines can be quite entertaining as many other review type blurbs.
    talismandave likes this.

  11. #41
    Aron9000's Avatar
    Aron9000 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    5,220

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    I drove a 74 Coupe Deville for a few hundred miles, doing errands for my boss, that thing was a total barge. Car was all original and had 50k miles on it. Cool car, white with the orange/gold D'Elegance interior, but my 91 Brougham drove a lot nicer/tighter and had 105k on it when I bought it. Didn't rattle or squeak like that 74 car did, less wind noise, doors didn't rattle when you closed them. The 74 had it all over the 91 in terms of sheer size and disco era vulgarity, but you could look at the two cars for about 30 seconds and tell the build quality was A LOT tighter on the newer cars.

    Same thing when looking at 60's Cadillacs, the wood trim was real, not fake, the interior plastics were nicer, the body panels lined up better, there weren't those stupid plastic rear fillers that crack(something I hated on both my 91 and the 74), the 60's cars just felt a lot more special IMO.

  12. #42
    larryinalabama is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1990 Brougham
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    423

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Im thinking a 67 convertible and a 76 Fleetwood..............well why can you have both?

    Ive alaways wanted a 71-76 Fleetwood, they were beautiful cars, doubt Ill ever get one. I once had a 74 coupe, it was a fantastic road car.

    The 77-79 has is still my faverote years.

    By the looks of the pic of the 67 vert, Id say the car would be extremely hard too replace.

  13. #43
    Koooop's Avatar
    Koooop is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 300 SRT8, 392 cubic inches of tire smoking power!
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    So Cal
    Age
    50
    Posts
    7,697
    That 76 is a roach.
    cadillacmike68 likes this.

  14. #44
    talismandave's Avatar
    talismandave is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham, 1974 Fleetwood Talisman, Volvo C70,
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Madison WI
    Age
    55
    Posts
    6,132

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    There was something wrong with your bosses car!

    My first '74 Talisman was bought in 1979 with 52,000 miles on it and was silent on the roughest of roads. My 1976 Coupe Deville bought in 1982 and my 1976 Fleetwood in 1986 both had well over 100,000 and did not behave like that either.
    They were all great solid quiet cars, or I would not have kept buying them. Some thing was wrong with his car, plain and simple.

    My current Talisman sounds like your bosses car but it is a half disassembled mess. (Something is wrong with mine too!)
    77CDV and the APEMAN like this.

  15. #45
    jayoldschool's Avatar
    jayoldschool is offline GM RWD V8 addict
    Automobile(s): 81 FWB D'Elegance coupe
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,943

    Re: Thoughts....Vehicle trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Aron9000 View Post
    I drove a 74 Coupe Deville for a few hundred miles, doing errands for my boss, that thing was a total barge.
    Was your boss Darnell? Did he own a scrap yard?



    Let's see who gets this one...
    77CDV and talismandave like this.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting