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RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, 94 thru 96. What to buy? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; thx Aron9000, my '92 handled and felt great I believed....with 168k miles, just drove a '94 w/108k miles and it ...
  1. #16
    Steeltag is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    thx Aron9000, my '92 handled and felt great I believed....with 168k miles, just drove a '94 w/108k miles and it felt tight! ( they had done lots of maintenance), and it felt a bit more 'modern' if you will. I haven't driven a v4p opioned fwb yet though.....sure wish I could to feel the difference in ride/handling/acceleration/rpm's and to see if the 'loud' mechanical fan would be bothersome or not.

    I like the 'quiet cam' and quieter/more solid door latches I've read on w/the 95-96's, but like the looks of the smaller mirrored '94's and their 3 way lumbar adjustments. grrrr can't find the right combination of value/price/miles/color/condition yet!!! I'm NOT a fan of the silver/grey/gold-ish colors...really like the blue , blue-grey, green and maroon colors....white is alright but looks more sedate than those other colors I mentioned.

    ----------

    oh, I've been reading more about the 'pristine on top and ugly under' posts and inquiries to owners....yuck, and what a shame......

    ----------

    Question: can you get a fwb with a sunroof AND the rear roof mounted vanity lights? ( I just really like that 'gimmick')

  2. #17
    jayoldschool's Avatar
    jayoldschool is online now GM RWD V8 addict
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?


    Question: can you get a fwb with a sunroof AND the rear roof mounted vanity lights? ( I just really like that 'gimmick')
    ONLY if the sunroof was a dealer/aftermarket install. Besides the RPO, that is the instant giveaway for if a sunroof is factory or not.

  3. #18
    TripBlack is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    You fellas that keep passing up the 93's are missing out. Keep walking by em. More for me

  4. #19
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    I had a 95 and have a 96. The radios are different as is the OBDI vs OBDII inn the 96. The 95 had a different front armrest which I liked better. Otherwise the cars were nearly identical. My 96 has the theft deterrent system (also avail on the 94-95), which is mainly horn & lights, but it also locks the rear license plate to prevent getting at the gas tank filler!!! Tthe 95 had the factory chrome wheels option (N83), but these can be found (I bought an NOS set of 4 in the boxes)

    Some year changes, besides the ones already mentioned.

    94 - first use of LT1 engine
    95 - first use of platinum plugs, lumbar adjustment changed (for the worse)
    96 - first use of DexCool and OBDII, and DRLS (in US, DRLs were already mandatory in Canada)

    Broughams have the padded top, but they also had other items such as the rear storage armrest (with 2 cupholders, Twilight Sentinel, plus a 2.93: 1 axle ratio, oil and trans coolers, plus extra capaciy cooling (larger electric fans).

    A couple of options to look for:

    CF5 - Sunroof - but this deletes the dual rear vanity mirrors (RPO DC5)
    GU6 - 2.42:1 rear axle, often seen only with V4P, trailer pkg
    G80 - Locking Differential - possibly only on coachbuilder models,but maybe on V4P optioned cars
    NM8 - Leaded Fuel, Govt order only!!!
    N83 - Chrome wheels
    QQR - V rated tires!! This SHOULD mean no 108MPH speed limiter.....
    UA6 - Theft deterrent system

    ??? - Sungate windshield. I can't find the code. It might be part of a "merchandising package... Mat Garret has an Impala with a Sungate, code A23, so that might be it. But then ho also has a 1996 Fleetwood and mentioned the windshield and has a photo of the SPID sticker, but there is no A23 on that sticker ?????

    Whatever you get, drive and enjoy it.

  5. #20
    jayoldschool's Avatar
    jayoldschool is online now GM RWD V8 addict
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Great info. I believe GU6 would be 3.42, not 2.42. I'm sure that's just a typo.

    Jay, is it just FE1-3 or is there a fourth code for stiffer suspension?
    I know that F40 was heavy duty option on Roadmasters (my 92 had it), but unsure if that is an RPO used on Cadillac. I know it is used on many GM vehicles.

    My 92 Roadmaster wagon had Sungate, but there is no RPO on the SPID for it. Probably part of a package (1SE, 1SZ, etc). My 94 FWB had Sungate as well, but I don't have the Compnine data for it.

  6. #21
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    I didn't know there were 94s with the traction-off button...I had a friend who had a 94 who told me he didn't have it (didn't see for myself, though) and remember reading somewhere they put it on in 95. Anyway, thanks for the correction! I'd still go 95 or 96, though. As for 93, I never drove one, but the engine numbers just don't look good compared to the LT1. That and I know a guy who had both and he totally preferred the LT1 version for its better power and smoothness. With these cars coming in at around 4500 lbs., it's nice to have power!

  7. #22
    TripBlack is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    The 93's have the traction control off button as well.

    Just an fyi about the 93 vs 94-96 engines.

    We are talking about 30 ft lbs of torque difference between the two engines. This equates to .5 seconds in 1/4 mile times when tested as new.

    The 1993 did 17.8 in the 1/4 mile and the 1996 did 17.3 in the 1/4 mile.

    It really isn't that much more power is it?

  8. #23
    csbuckn is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    ^When you out it that way, the 93s would be in the mix too. Definitely didn't mind the tbi 350 in my 90.

  9. #24
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Interesting numbers on the 93, but they don't match numbers I've come across. The roughly 30 foot-pound difference in the torque is accurate, but don't ignore the horsepower difference, which will matter at higher speeds. The LT1 Fleetwood has 260 hp vs. the L05 Fleetwood at 185 hp. The 0-60 time for the LT1 Fleetwood is 8.5 seconds vs. 10.5 for the L05 Fleetwood. That means the L05 takes almost 25% longer, which is significant. I also did not find quarter-mile times for the LT1 that you did. I found the LT1 does the quarter-mile in roughly 16 seconds. One was a computer simulation, but two others actually measured it on their cars (one from this forum) and got 15.7 and 15.8. The lowest I found for the L05 was 17.3 and some went as high as your 17.8 This is roughly a 2 second difference, which is also significant. I couldn't find end speeds for the quarter mile, but finishing at around 110 mph (low estimate and ignoring the limiter) would mean travel of 161 feet/second, so being 2 seconds behind would mean around 300 feet the L05 would have to make up that the LT1 already traversed. This equates to around 16 car lengths (both are 225 in long). So it would seem the LT1 driver in the 1/4 mile would see the L05 driver quite far back in his rear-view mirror. The power jump seems significant by the numbers.

    Now, I've never driven a 93, so I can't provide an actual comparison by experience. I, however, have driven an L05 in a 92 Brougham, which is lighter than a 93 Fleetwood, and it was noticeably slower (though not horribly so) than my 95 Fleetwood. Just looking at the specs, I do find it hard to believe that a 30 ft-lb. jump in torque (10% increase) and a 75 hp jump in power (40% increase) would only result in .5 seconds for a quarter mile run. There is already a 2 second difference in 0-60 times, and that extra horsepower and torque, no matter how small, is going to pay even more dividends over 60 for extra speed, which is more distance per unit of time. This doesn't account for everything like final drive ratios which would matter and which do differ between base Fleetwood, Fleetwood Brougham, and those with the towing package. I am also aware that the calculations for acceleration are more complicated than just considering the factory-reported peak horsepower and torque numbers that only occur at specified RPMs (power curves are more useful), but overall everything I come across gives the LT1 a significant edge. The 93 has a lot going for it in general, but nothing the 94-96 doesn't have. The major difference is the engine, and when it comes to performance, the LT1 is the way to go.

  10. #25
    Poda is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TripBlack View Post
    The 93's have the traction control off button as well.

    Just an fyi about the 93 vs 94-96 engines.

    We are talking about 30 ft lbs of torque difference between the two engines. This equates to .5 seconds in 1/4 mile times when tested as new.

    The 1993 did 17.8 in the 1/4 mile and the 1996 did 17.3 in the 1/4 mile.

    It really isn't that much more power is it?
    I love my LT1s, but my folks had a RMW with the earlier motor. It's really not that different. It *does* drive different with a different power band, but not in a bad way. Drive a 93 before dismissing them - you may be selling yourself short if you don't include them on your list.

  11. #26
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Gear ratios make a big difference, and can mask the HP/TQ difference between the L05 and the LT1. For example, a trailer pack L05 RMW will feel as quick or quicker off the line than a base gear LT1 FW.

  12. #27
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    I definitely agree about the gear ratios making a significant difference. My friend had a 97 Deville and replaced it with a 96 Concours. Though there is a little tuning difference between the Northstar engines, the major difference is that the Concours has a higher gear ratio and it definitely feels faster off-the-line. The price to pay is that it revs quite a bit higher at highway speeds. When my friend got the 96 he actually thought there was a problem with the transmission due to the revving until he learned it was due to the more-aggressive gear ratio.

    In the case of the Fleetwoods I suppose the true test of the engines would be to have the same final drive ratios, in which case the LT1 should perform a bit better. I don't think the 93 to 94-96 difference seems really huge, especially in daily driving, it is just if someone really does want the max that was offered from GM, the difference between the L05 and LT1 should be considered. To be honest, though, in non-aggressive daily city driving my Olds 307 doesn't move the car much differently than my LT1 under 45 mph and normal throttle (the same friend always jokes about its impressive 0-20 acceleration), but virtually no one would argue to have an Olds 307 in their mid-90s Fleetwood. The real difference in any of these is when the pedal is really down and the speeds and loads get high and/or the hills get steep. That is why Olds 307 wouldn't cut it, and where the edge of the LT1 over the L05 would be felt, all other things being equal.

    Also, as a correction, I finally did find an LT1 Fleetwood 1/4 mile run with an end speed. Apparently it did it in 16 seconds @ 88 mph, so my estimate above of 110 was quite a bit overstated, but the LT1 car would still be over 10 car-lengths ahead of the L05 car by the new numbers, which is still enough to be significant.
    Steeltag likes this.

  13. #28
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    Cadillac Giovanni is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Hey, did you buy one yet? I'd like to chime in as a Brougham to Fleetwood convert and tell you it isn't worth it. Do not get me wrong, the 93-96 Fleetwood is a great car, everything you could want, but the Oldsmobile-powered Broughams are FANTASTIC cars.

    Like you, I wanted to "upgrade" to something with more power, and while I will admit it is nice to have that many horsies under the hood, the novelty wears off quickly, and the extra power is, in my opinion, the only edge these cars have over their predecessors. The older Broughams are easier to get in and out of, ride nicer, look nicer, handle nicer, and the build quality is much better. I went from an 89 Brougham with over 200,000 miles into a 95 Fleetwood with barely 30,000 miles, and I was a little disturbed by how quickly the Fleetwood started to creak, rattle and generally deteriorate under normal driving conditions, compared to my Brougham.

    Granted, both cars are mechanically sound and generally great, comfy, large, American luxo-barges, but if the ONLY thing you want is more power, rethink your decision. After a handful of burnouts, I got bored with it.

  14. #29
    Lord Fleetwood is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    Why "convert" when you can own both? There are benefits to both the 80s Broughams and 90s Fleetwoods.

    As far as the 90s Fleetwoods go, they don't have the "classic" beauty or as much dress-up as the Broughams, but its still a great looking car. Those shiny chrome rockers exude class and the whole car executes an impressive fusion of the "aero" look of the 90s with the classic Cadillac. The car seems more imposing, too. It is longer and wider than the Brougham, and I always wished those Broughams were a little wider. The hood is a bit weak on the Fleetwoods, but driving behind the car it looks like a behemoth, wide and full. My 95 FWB has 170,000+ miles and it doesn't creak or rattle at all. My 86 DOES rattle and creek a bit, though I would agree it has a more "solid" build quality - that is, its parts feel more durable and fewer things are made of plastic. The Brougham does handle better and feels more lithe, but in general it is a lighter car and once again not as wide. The Brougham (mine's also D'Elegance) has WAY more comfortable seats...probably the best I've ever sat in.

    That said, those Olds-powered Broughams are indeed fantastic, but the engine itself isn't. It's reliable and well-built for sure, but it doesn't accelerate well at high speeds and doesn't plow up hills. The only way to have road dominance is to anticipate what others will do and try to get accelerating before they try to do it. Not so with my 95. With the 95 the power is there when I want it and it moves well on hills and at high speeds, and I don't have to "anticipate" people's actions - at any time I can usually blow them away or at least hold my own, even with newer cars with good engines. The Olds 307 was built in a time of EPA regulations and new gas-guzzler taxes. It was made to pump out less pollution and use less gas in a time when engine manufacturers struggled to meet those needs and still provide power. The 307 has some decent low-end torque considering, but when it comes to giving excess like a Cadillac should, it doesn't. I really love the look of disappointment and frustration when someone driving a Jap-crap car loses to what they think is an "old-man" car that is nearly 50% larger and heavier. My 86 almost never gives me that feeling, but it is still a wonderful car.

  15. #30
    Cadillac Giovanni's Avatar
    Cadillac Giovanni is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 94 thru 96. What to buy?

    I support the theory that the 307 has all the power you need for most situations. You may think you want more, but you don't need it. I rarely accelerate my 95 any faster than my 89 could manage. Usually when I do, it's because I'm just angry at someone else on the road and want to speed past them or get away from them. A well-tuned 307 is not the dog it's made out to be. I was always impressed with how reasonably well it could move the car (and mine was certainly not well-tuned).

    I got my 95 just because I thought I was "tired" of my 89, and wanted something newer/different. I liked the fact that it was both faster and bigger than my 89, but now that all is said and done, those are really the only two things I can say the 95 has the edge on. And gas mileage. Oh, and the heated seats. My girlfriend likes those.
    talismandave likes this.

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