5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree4Likes
  • 3 Post By shrike77
  • 1 Post By shrike77
RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; ...
  1. #1
    shrike77 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham 5.3 Vortec, 4L60E transmission
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    288

    5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    As you guys requested, here are the steps of my swap. I don`t have many pics but I will add later on whatever I have. Any questions please don`t hesitate. My meory sucks too

    STEPS :

    1. Measure actual engine angle. When you’ll install the engine you need to get the pinion angle right. In order to not play with the differential angle you need to get the engine angle as the original engine. If you don’t get your pinion angle right, you`ll get vibrations and shorter driveshaft life and maybe some other issued with the transmission. I don`t know how well I got mine but I don`t really feel any vibrations due to this. Please do a search on pinion angle and how to set it and measure it.

    2. Remove driveshaft

    3. Remove tank (I chose to use an in-tank pump with a 1996 Fleetwood tank)

    4. Remove exhaust

    5. Remove engine and transmission

    6. Remove radiator

    7. At the time I did not find any engine mounts to adapt the engine to our frame, maybe by now someone makes them. I think you can use the S&P engine mounts but need to drill holes in the frame of the car. I found on the net the dimension for the adapter plates and had them cut to where I worked. I cut a template out of wood to mimic the shape of the frame cradle and welded the plates to some tubes and to the engine mounts from the Olds 307 engine. This is how I made my engine mounts. Try to get it as close to the frame as you can. You can play with the height and how it is placed lengthwise if you do it this way.

    8. Put 5.3 engine in the car. You`ll need to get the proper angle after installing the transmission. Later of this in the following steps

    9. I used the 4L60E out of a 1999 truck. You can also use other year truck or Camaro transmissions but you need to make sure they can be programmed together and to also make sure there are no other details that might differ. I have to add do not do like me and buy a 4WD transmission thinking you just need to remove the transfer case. You have to change the whole shaft inside. Not worth it unless you are really good with transmissions and have extra time for that.

    10. If you want to use a cable for the speedo and the same cross member (the stock one on the Caddy) as the 200R4 then you need the tailhousing out of an early 4L60E with the mount at the proper place. You also need the machined adapter to adapt the 4 bolt pattern of this tailhousing to the 6 bolt pattern of the 4L60E for LS engines. I used the kit made by jagsthatrun.com but I am not sure they make it anymore, give them a call. You also need the speedo gears with the reluctor ring relocation kit. I also used the one made by jagsthatrun.com. From my research these were the most reliable ones since the reluctor rings are bolted and not epoxied. In that last case there is a chance they come off. The whole kit was a bit costly at 5-600 dollars (after it got to Canada), but I was able to use the stock speedo cable and stock cross member.

    11. Now if you did like me and your engine angle is different than with the stock engine you need to set the pinion angle. My angle was about 4-5 degrees. I think I set the pinion to 2.5-3.5 degrees (I know not really perfect). So the way I achieved this was to cut slots in the upper control arms and weld washers so they are longer and they rotate the differential housing. You can also buy aftermarket arms which are adjustable and more expensive but I wanted to have the original flexibility and rubber bushings in the rear suspension. The problem is that if you rotate the differential and its nose points towards the floor of the car, you loose clearance, you cannot lower the car anymore and that is why I preferred to get brand new stiffer springs (Moog cargo coil springs 186 lbs/in, spec`d for the towing package suspension) which got the car a bit higher too when compared to the springs with the air shocks.

    12. Since we are at the rear suspension and you plan on getting a sway bar, it is better if you get and you are able to find the GM-redesigned brackets with the lower control arms. I got the set for 100 bucks. Second design was implemented because sometimes a bigger sway bar would rip the sway bar mounts in the arms. I think mainly in situations when one wheel would be higher than the other one, like one wheel on a curb and one in the street. These mounts are probably found on lter 95-96`s B-bodies.

    13. Now your engine and transmission are in.

    14. Electrical connections, you can find on the net info on how to modify the wiring or if you want, you can buy already modified wiring harnesses. You also have to splice and bring some wires in the car or to the fuel pump. You'll also want to remove whatever wires you are not using anymore from the old engine.

    15. Talking of fuel pump, I used a 1995 Fleetwood tank with a AC Delco pump for reliability but you need to swap the stock 1995 model for a pump that fits in but is rated at 60PSI. LSX engines run on 60PSI , not 45 like LT1`s. The tank fits fine, no modification required, only to the filler neck. You need to make a bracket to fix it.

    16. You need to find a place for the computer. I removed my charcoal canister and installed it there. The air filter also gets its air from there (behind headlight), more on that later.

    17. Plumbing for gas tank: I used the steel lines in the frame. Between the steel lines and tank I used nylon lines with the GM connections. You may also use rubber lines but you need fuel injected rated rubber lines with fuel injected clamps! In the engine bay I used rubber lines that adapt to nylon lines that go to the engine. You need to get creative. That is where I installed my fuel filter, in the engine bay. I might not remember correctly but there are three lines 3/8, 5/16 and ¼. I think 3/8 or 5/16 goes to the charcoal canister. I used the 3/8 to bring the fuel and 5/16 as a return. Maybe I am a bit confused on sizes. It was a while ago. I put a filter on the line that would have otherwise gone to the EVAP solenoid on the intake of the 5.3 truck engine.

    18. I kept the truck intake. Some people switch to a LS1 intake but it gives less torque. You need a LS6 intake for that. But then you need to change other stuff like the front accessory belt routing, and probably even water pump neck. Too much trouble for me.

    19. The A/C compressor won`t fit unless you notch the frame. I don`t have one, I live in the north. I might fabricate something if I have the time later.

    20. I used 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds. They fit fine but close. Depending how you fit the engine they may or may not cause problems.

    21. I cut the EVAP solenoid because it was interfering with the hood.

    22. You need to plug the EGR system hole in the intake manifold if you have one.

    23. You may want to keep your oil pressure and buy an adapter to fit it at the rear of the 5.3 intake manifold.

    24. You can also use an adapter to use the original coolant sensor. I will use a temp gage instead.

    25. You cannot use a mechanical fan unless you get really creative with the air filter. I used an electric fan.

    26. You need to get creative with the air filter anyways to route it under the hood. I will try to include a pic of what I have. I bought some elbows, piping and used a rubber part from the original manifold.

    27. I did my exhaust and only the two front O2 sensors with a catalytic converter. I used 2x 2.25 pipes that merge into a 3 in. pipe. I had to stop it in front of the rear axle. Truck manifolds did not work for me.

    28. You also need to cut the driveshaft.

    29. You may want to use a bigger radiator.

    30. You need to modify your transmission lines.

    31. You need to get the engine tuned. I chose Blackbear performance and very happy with it.

    32. You won`t be able to start the engine until VATS is removed.

    33. You’ll probably need to modify the hose routing for the radiator

    34. I had to modify the shift lever linkage.

    35. I also had to modify the accelerator pedal so I can use a stock accelerator cable. I think it was the one from the Caddy but not sure, might have also been the one from the truck engine.

    36. If you want to have drive by wire accelerator pedal then you need the pedal and all the hardware. I don`t know what other modifications are required in that case.

    37. I have the stock 2.73 rear end. It is too high. It keeps the engine from reaching the power band quickle. My best ¼ mile on stock street tires was 15.31s and it was my first time on a drag strip. But with a POSI 3.42 rear end I believe it could get easily in the 14.5s. With a good driver it could even be lower in my opinion

    38. Best is to go for a 8.5 POSI rear end with the gear of your choice. I would go for a 3.23 or 3.42 since it is a daily driver for me.

    ----------









  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    caddy1983 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1983 Fleetwood brougham 2 door
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    99

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    Thank you very much for this information. I am planning to do is conversion on my 1983 2 door brougham soon. Any more info., pics(engine bay) and video will be nice. Again thank you. You might be the first one here to post a write up for a lsx conversion for our RWD 80's Cadillacs. There are a
    couple of conversions on youtube with an ls and lt1 swap. Keep them coming. Hopefully there is a shop/company that makes these conversions for
    our
    Caddies more easier in regards to mounts, tranny type and other mechanisms for a easy conversion.

  4. #3
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
    cadillac kevin is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): chevy 350 powered 86 FWB, 00 safari h.t. 66 toro, 83 lesabre
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    5,604
    I would think given the amount of B body guys who do LS swaps that something would be available for the impala ss.

  5. #4
    csbuckn is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 84 Coupe w/500
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    5,103
    Well that's one heck of a write up. Thanks for the info. I'm hoping to do something like this in another caddy. A build with gas mileage as the main focus. Either ls or an 3.8l swap.

  6. #5
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
    cadillac kevin is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): chevy 350 powered 86 FWB, 00 safari h.t. 66 toro, 83 lesabre
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    5,604

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    Quote Originally Posted by csbuckn View Post
    Well that's one heck of a write up. Thanks for the info. I'm hoping to do something like this in another caddy. A build with gas mileage as the main focus. Either ls or an 3.8l swap.
    I'd love to see a SC 3800 SIII in a caddy. you'd need a trans am 3800 block and the internals from a fwd 3800 SC though IIRC

  7. #6
    shrike77 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham 5.3 Vortec, 4L60E transmission
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    288

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    I can post more pics from under the hood and from under the car but let me know what you really want to see.
    I did not talk about wiring but once again if you need anything let me know. If I remember what I did I'll answer your questions.

    For a swap that is easy on gas my dream engine would be a 3.0l diesel engine from a Liberty or Grand Cherokee
    The ultimate swap for me would be the powertrain from the new Tesla. But if I do it I would be afraid the car would catch on fire

    ----------

    Also please free to change the title of the thread to something that is easier to find when searching.

  8. #7
    Cadillacboy's Avatar
    Cadillacboy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,188

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    This is textbook example as to how to swap an engine in a fashion & style . If this was a graduation project you would get the highest mark surely

  9. #8
    CadillacLuke24's Avatar
    CadillacLuke24 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): Alexandra - 96 SDV
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Middle of Nowhere
    Age
    23
    Posts
    4,810

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    Nicely done! Looks great.

    Bet that 5.3 woke it up quite a bit

  10. #9
    caddy1983 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1983 Fleetwood brougham 2 door
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    99

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    love the have the pics you have. You can email me the pics or post them here. Its up to you. You have my email address. Thank you

  11. #10
    shrike77 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham 5.3 Vortec, 4L60E transmission
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    288

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillacboy View Post
    This is textbook example as to how to swap an engine in a fashion & style . If this was a graduation project you would get the highest mark surely
    Thank you for the kind words. I wrote it a bit fast and there are a few tiny errors. I tried to correct them but when I edit the text it shows me a blank page

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CadillacLuke24 View Post
    Nicely done! Looks great.

    Bet that 5.3 woke it up quite a bit
    Yes it did. I got my new re-tuned computer from Blackbear performance today. That guy is amazing. He also told me I do not have a 4.8 which I was told it was from the previous owner but it is a 5.3. Slightly better....

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by caddy1983 View Post
    love the have the pics you have. You can email me the pics or post them here. Its up to you. You have my email address. Thank you
    I just took some more pics from under the hood today but I am not sure it shows much more. What I posted and these new pics is really all I have for now. But as I said, if you are interested to see anything, close-ups, etc...let me know and I will take pics. I have to work under the car this winter so I can take pics from under the car also. I forgot to mention the truck oil pan hangs a bit low. 1.5-2 in below the engine cradle. That was another reason I did not want to lower the car.

    ----------

    It is not the cleanest swap sorry. If I have the time thhis winter I plan on cleaning up the wiring a little bit














    ----------

    I also wanted to mention that I used my original transmission mount. I put about 3000 miles on the car and no problems yet but this winter I`ll check all mounts and other stuff
    Cadillacboy likes this.

  12. #11
    Cadillacboy's Avatar
    Cadillacboy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,188

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    You're welcome .I forgot to say this topic should hit Cadillac Owners Forum's feed ,I mean monthly e-mail or something like this

  13. #12
    caddy1983 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1983 Fleetwood brougham 2 door
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    99

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    I don't know why there hasn't been a thread about this lsx conversions on our 80's RWD Caddies. These are beautiful and elegant cars. We all
    know
    they were under powered at the time. But now with these conversions, I don't see why these Caddies should be ignored. These
    aftermarket /conversion shops/companies should have motor mount kits plus pulley kits/wiring hardness for the conversion. This should help the
    swap go easier with less frustration. I can picture my 2 door
    Brougham all original except for the 90's exterior conversion(I currently have this 90's update) with a nice LS engine with either custom or original Cadillac fuel rail covers to make it
    look
    original. Also it will be considered a sleeper hotrod. I'm just disappointed with GM not competing with the big 4 door sedans that our other car
    companies have. Especially the benz and bmw's. These are nice looking cars with excellent horsepower well over 400hp. Caddy 4 doors such as
    the DTS, sts, eldorados(early to mid 2000's)were nice looking cars but with only 300hp and a northstar engine(headbolt /cooling problems)Our
    80's RWD caddies are bigger but with less power. My goal is to add a 6.2L 403hp GM powerplant from an Escalade or yukon.gm truck. With this engine swap my car will be very
    desirable and will go head to head with our import competition. I'm sorry if i'm venting but this info. needs to be out there. I also have a
    1996 Impala SS with your basic bolt-ons. Car runs great(94,567 original miles) but can also be stronger without spending money trying to add bigger heads etc....We need factory muscle not bolt ons. Thanks for listening/reading

  14. #13
    shrike77 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham 5.3 Vortec, 4L60E transmission
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    288

    Re: 5.3 engine swap steps in 1987 Brougham

    The only difference between our Caddys and the Impalas / Caprices is the Old engine mounts from what I understand. That should in theory be the only main thing that is different when doing the swap. I am under the impression that I might have read a while ago that S&P were planning to do engine mount adapters for the Old engines too. I don`t know if they ever did.
    Maybe I am wrong but I believe that german cars will always be german cars, sportier, more pleasant interiors (in my opinion), more solid (or at least appear more solid) and in general better design than the other brands.
    The good thing is the gap between them and the rest is much smaller than it used to be. I like also STS`s. When they came out I loved the design and I still do. It is just too bad they were "wrong" wheel drive, once again...my opinion. To me a luxury car needs to be RWD.

    That 6.2 L should be very nice. I would love to get one or at least keep the 5.3 with a cam and a 6L80e or a manual transmission.
    But before I do major mods like that I need to replace the roof and maybe get it painted. This won`t happen for at least 1 or 2 years so for now I only drive it when it doesn`t rain.

    Anyways if you look at the new Cadillacs they have all the power you`ll ever want, so I guess they are listening.

    I wish the Tesla S had a Cadillac badge though I`d love to own that car but it is of course way out of my budget

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting