Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kinda) - Page 3
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RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kinda) in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Its very faint, but you can hear some scrapping to it. Check also your starter, it could be loose and ...
  1. #31
    1980coupe's Avatar
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Its very faint, but you can hear some scrapping to it. Check also your starter, it could be loose and it's up against the flywheel. My 80 coupe did that and it was sounding awful when starting up and when idling. I took a looks see and the starter was cracked and had chunks kissing which I found on the dust cover. I replaced it but soon after, I parked the Caddy and got me a new car, my caddy hasn't been driven since July of last year.
    You can do what csbuckn mentioned as well. On my 80 brougham coupe I had, it had the exact sound and was told it could be something minor or major. Minor- flywheel, major- engine rod. The method used to check it was unbolting TC from flywheel, if sound ceased then that was the culprit. If it didn't, engine rod, crankshaft bearing..in my case it was the crankshaft.
    Hopefully yours is something minor...best of luck and keep us updated on what you find.

  2. #32
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    1980coupe: I think I've experienced the starter problem you're talking about. I think that was the first time I had the starter replaced, in 2006. It would sound horrible when cranking, so bad that I didn't start it, just had it towed. This is different, see below:

    Went out yesterday & started it to see what it would do. It does not make any noise while trying to crank it. Once it started, I could hear the whining/scraping, but it went away after a few seconds. I let it warm up, and by the time it was down from high idle, the noise had started again. Faint at first but kept building. Didn't try to drive it, but it still has an rpm dependent whine, and the constant scraping like in the video. Once the noise started again, it kept going until I turned the car off 5 minutes later. Would bearings going bad make a noise like this?

    I wasn't kidding when I mentioned the possibility of having the engine pulled & refurbished at this point. I might actually have the funds for once, and I'm tired of feeling like I'm driving on borrowed time. Only problem is I don't know where to start! The shop I go to is an installer of Jasper engines, but I don't know if they also do rebuilds, and therefor have a machine shop they trust, or what. There's no way I could pull / disassemble the engine myself. No tools, experience, or garage. However I want to have say over every step. Like cleaning up the frame while its out, or getting the block painted GM blue again... has anyone else been in my shoes? How does one maintain control over a build, while forced to let a shop do the majority of the work?

    EDIT: Perhaps I should start a separate thread in the 368/425/472/500 forum for engine rebuild conversation? I really want to open that up for discussion, and having it buried in a project thread doesn't strike me as the best way achieve that.

  3. #33
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Ben, I would never let a shop do an engine pull/refresh/install. Too many variables, the costs will spiral out of control. Unless you have a blank check book, forget it. If you don't have the tools, start picking things up. Engine cranes and stands are cheap at Harbor Freight, or can be rented.

    Engine parts don't really make the noises you are reporting. Rods/mains knock (loud), cam/lifters/rockers tick. Accessories make whining/squeaking/whiring noises. You should be able to sort out where the noises are coming from with a practiced ear and a long screwdriver/pry bar. Tip of screwdriver on part, plastic end on your ear. Start learning what things sound like. You'll find bad/noisy parts really quick.
    Benzilla and larryinalabama like this.

  4. #34
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    If this engine ever gets rebuilt, it will have to be either by a shop, or a friend with a garage and know-how (any takers?)

    I have a driveway, and a toolbox.

    If I could get my head under a running car sitting on concrete, trying to hear anything at all would be a challenge. hah

    Thusly, my dilemma. Mucho frustration. I'd have to take a whole ASE course and buy a house before I could tackle this alone.

    EDIT: I should really stop here and clarify... I am aware that the noise may (most likely) not require any kind of engine rebuilding to fix. But opperating under the assumption that it's the flywheel, the trans has to come off anyway, and I decided I'm tired of putting off the inevitable. While I actually have some extra change, I want to get this thing scrubbed up & ready for another 235k.

    The rebuild is an idea sparked by the noise at the rear of the engine, *not* a direct jump in logic of repairing it.

    -Ben

  5. #35
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    From watching the video it sounds like a transmission oil pump, check the fluid. Its possible the filter on the 400trans is clogged up.

    I don't think the noise is a internal engine problem.

    You could unbolt the torque converter and posit back a little and start the engine and see if the noise is gone.

    ----------

    Im about 2 1/2 hours from Chattanooga, I have a shop with a lift, I would need some help cleaning out the shop. In March my business gets busy so after that my time would be limited.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    I listened to the utube video. It doesn't sound like engine on the video but would have been better at a few different RPM.

    The giant mosquito sound is either a clogged transmission filter or an empty power steering pump.

    The flexplate (flywheel) cover on these can make squirrley noises. Remove it and look for shiney spots.

    If yer engine IS gone swap to a 500 : )

  7. #37
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ape Man View Post
    If yer engine IS gone swap to a 500 : )
    If he had an '82 or later, I would agree. But my vote is to keep the 425.

    ----------

    I was in a similar boat years ago with a '61 Impala. No garage, no time, and my driveway wasn't even paved.
    I took it to a shop that came highly recommended to get the engine rebuilt. I was not pleased at all.
    They did a fine job on the engine, but - like you said - I had no control. The tech that worked on it was astounded at how original the engine was. Factory parts still present that usually had been replaced long before then. Regardless, he replaced everything whether it really needed it or not. Of course many replacements did not look the same as the originals.
    Your best bet is to find a friend with the space, tools, and knowledge to help out. (someone on this forum, perhaps )
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  8. #38
    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    This Is an educated guess. This suggests that you may have material In the bottom of the transmission pan that falls to the bottom of the pan and after the fluid warms up gets drawn Into the filter and clogs It up. I had this happen with a couple 400's. With that many miles, If you haven't serviced the trans fluid, there may be excessive clutch material collected there. You can do this In the driveway, but be careful. Use a big collection pan under the trans. Pull the bolts out near the back of the pan, then remove the others near the front. Leave two bolts at the front and back them out half way. Use a scraper and pry the back of the pan down to let the fluid drain off into your collector pan. Expect to get wet. The fluid comes out pretty fast. Finally pull the last two bolts and lower the pan. Check the bottom of the pan for collected material. Take pics of the remnants. Are there a lot of metal filings? A rebuild may be in your future, but removing the material, will allow you some time to consider your options.

  9. #39
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    If the noise IS the transmission it will probably change it's tune when going from park to drive without even moving.

  10. #40
    csbuckn is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Just grab an automotive stethoscope and have a poke around. Should give you a direction before you take it in.

  11. #41
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Thanks for all the good advice, & support. I will investigate further, and post my findings later.

    I'll quickly renote that the trans was rebuild at the end of 2009-early 2010, and has around 5-10k miles on it. Trans fluid was full & pink when checked a week ago. Power steering fluid, too.

    On another note, my new master cylinder cover + gasket came in today. These are much better than the ones that came with the Bendix rebuild. The gasket looks just like my original! The cover itself seems to be pretty solid. Had my concerns, being a chrome dress-up item (only way I could find one). Can't wait to see how this affects the leak!

  12. #42
    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ape Man View Post
    If the noise IS the transmission it will probably change it's tune when going from park to drive without even moving.
    Ape is right on here. The pitch of the whine will increase and decrease as you move the lever from PRND.

  13. #43
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Yep, and, if it's power steering, the pitch of the whine will change in park when you turn the wheel from side to side.

  14. #44
    Benzilla's Avatar
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    Well, no word yet on the mystery sound. Due to being smack in the middle of the "Polar Vortex", I had it towed to a local shop that I use for bigger jobs & occasional diagnostics. Waiting to hear what they think, and will take it from there.

    On a lighter, unrelated note. I finally got around to scanning the dealer invoice that came folded up in the glove box! From a base price of $11,728, this one got loaded up to a total of $17,836.50. Ohh to have been the original owner seeing it for the first time!



    I still find it amusing that a passenger's side mirror was still optional in 1979... Worse yet, I've seen examples where someone chose to spring for the $2,029 Phaeton option, with $201 Firemist paint, but decided against the $46 side mirror. Talk about form before function!

    Could anyone tell me what the $9 "front bumper reinforcement" is?

    Also, apparently mine came with the automatic door locks that lock when you shift into drive... But they have never done that while I've owned it. Anyone have much experience with that system? I don't really miss it, but wish it worked if it's supposed to, lol.

    What did the $59 "Heavy-duty cooling system" include?

    The only option I wish it had would be the rear ride leveler. I would love to have the stabalizer bar that came with it, not to mention the ability to have the car level at all times, without either sagging with passengers or sitting tail-high when empty. I keep my aftermarket air shocks inflated to sit level with a full take of gas & no passengers. So with a few people in it, and no ride level / worn out front shocks & springs, it gives those old bump-stops a good squeeze.

    I still have to pull the back seat out & look for the build sheet. I've heard its between the springs & foam in the seatback on most? Not sure if it'll be there considering the seats were recovered in 1998, along with the headliner, carpet, and armrests.

  15. #45
    1980coupe's Avatar
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    Re: Project thread: 1979 Coupe DeVille Phaeton (a thread 7 years in the making... kin

    The automatic door locks work when you're seated in the drivers seat doors closed and move shift selector from P to D and doors would lock
    They can be manually unlocked to exit vehicle, let's say a passenger. He or she would unlock door and when closed it'll lock it self. Of course youd had to be seated in the driver's side. There's a switch on the driver's seat. Since your seats had been redone, perhaps the switch is unplugged or faulty. I'll check my manual for the other related switches and hopefully yours will work..
    My old 80 brougham coupe had this installed, was pretty cool to have.
    The heavy duty system probably consisted of a bigger radiator or more rows across to help cool it. I'm sure someone here will chime in on this.
    That front bumper reinforcement has me wondering what it could be...and for $9

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