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RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, 21 MPG on the highway in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by Katshot ...100 Fleetwood sedans , and 30-40 limousines per year. Do they still teach reading comprehension skills ...
  1. #31
    HotRodSaint's Avatar
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    ...100 Fleetwood sedans, and 30-40 limousines per year.
    Do they still teach reading comprehension skills in school? Or do people just leave school choosing to be ignorant?

  2. #32
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Katshot, you frickin liar!!!

    How can you say that limo's do the 1/4 mile in less than 3.5 seconds?

    And how can you say that Fleetwoods don't go to the moon and back on a tank of Tang.

    And, the biggest issue I have, is that you said there was an ice maker in all of the armrests.

    <end sarcasm>

    Ok Brian, this is a joke, right? Because it's getting real funny.

    Maybe MR SCOWL would have been more appropriate.

  3. #33
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodSaint
    Katshot, you frickin liar!!!

    How can you say that limo's do the 1/4 mile in less than 3.5 seconds?

    And how can you say that Fleetwoods don't go to the moon and back on a tank of Tang.

    And, the biggest issue I have, is that you said there was an ice maker in all of the armrests.

    <end sarcasm>

    Ok Brian, this is a joke, right? Because it's getting real funny.

    Maybe MR SCOWL would have been more appropriate.
    LOL!!!!!!!!!
    You're killing me! God I was hoping it wasn't me.

  4. #34
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    No, it wasn't you. I just leave the street and let the shoot'n commence.

  5. #35
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    Wink Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Quote Originally Posted by scurling
    No, it wasn't you. I just leave the street and let the shoot'n commence.

    Sure, I'm ready.


    Anyhow, what I'm arguing is that he maintains 22 mpg w/ 3.73 gears that, if it's not TOO obvious to most people radically increase RPM's -- at any speed. What that translates to is increased gas USAGE, not mileage. So, if Katshot admits to ~18 mpg Hwy, I'll conceid.

    Also, there's no way Fleetwood limos's (stretched, that's what defines a limo, not just a sedan with different plates) can get the same gas mileage as the sedans. I just seriously pulled over a guy at a light driving a 94 stretch, to get his input and he told me he's getting on the order of 13 mpg! Less when he's driving in the city.

    If that point is argued here my head may explode at the sheer lack of logic.

    I just think if you're going to spread information, make it factual. That way people who come to places like this are well informed and feel good when their real world experiences are in line.


    Brian 96 FWB / 96 Impala SS

  6. #36
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Brian,
    It's obvious that everyone else gets it. You're either thick as a brick or love stirring up controversy. Either way, I'm tired of trying to explain this to you. Read my posts or don't, I don't care at this point.
    Have a nice day.

  7. #37
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    Cool For What This Fact Is Worth..........

    THE HIGHWAY MILEAGE ON A NEW CAR STICKER IS BASED ON A CRUISE AT 49.6 MPH.
    GRANNY COULD'NT ATTAIN THAT GOOD MILEAGE.

  8. #38
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    3.73 gearing doesn't automatically mean worse milage. It will raise the rpm but as long as the rpm is a bit below the torque peak rpm of the engine the mileage won't get worse. He still never said limos get that kind of mileage, the only thing he said about limos is that the fleet he managed also happened to have limos in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKE91
    THE HIGHWAY MILEAGE ON A NEW CAR STICKER IS BASED ON A CRUISE AT 49.6 MPH.
    GRANNY COULD'NT ATTAIN THAT GOOD MILEAGE.
    That's true. The EPA ratings aren't designed to tell you what mileage you'll get when you drive, it's designed to be a standard test result that you can compare with EPA ratings on other cars. It's not all that accurate and fair, if the shift to 3rd or OD happens at say 50mph that car's going to get worse mileage.

  9. #39
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Man oh man. Kevin, what did you say to get these young boys all fired up? Do we dare tell them that the mileage gets worse in the winter because the computer demands more fuel to match the denser air??


    I would be interested to hear what Katshot had to say about my FTS wanna-be. It doesn't sem to matter what gas, what weather, or what speed, I appear to get 20 MPG give or take <5%. Box stock but for the K&N FIPK, 1LE elbow, Sweet Thunder chambered exhaust (duals), and Impala rims w/ Kuhmos (SS size). No trouble codes. 51K miles. Got any ideas why I can't get better??

  10. #40
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    [QUOTE=davesdeville]3.73 gearing doesn't automatically mean worse milage. It will raise the rpm but as long as the rpm is a bit below the torque peak rpm of the engine the mileage won't get worse. He still never said limos get that kind of mileage, the only thing he said about limos is that the fleet he managed also happened to have limos in it.

    I don't know where you read that, but it's simply not true in practical application.

    Try going from (2.93 gears) 80 mph at ~1950 rpm to (3.73 gears) 80 mph at ~3000 rpm. There's some additonal fuel used there, even though the air fuel ratio can regulate to 14.7:1. It's just a fact. Higher gears and/or more mods = more fuel to keep up. Now this is not necessarily inversley proprtional. If you went with, say 2.00 gears, would you get even better mileage than 2.93's? No. Why because you've hit a wall of diminising returns where the engine simply can't produce enough Tq to adequately maintain the vehicles needs for movement so the engine bogs and mileage suffers.

    Besides, does anyone remember ads in the early 80's gas crunch times where the EPA showed tests where two cars ran around a track, one at 55 mph and the other at 70? The one that ran slower got better mileage by quite a margin, and the one that ran faster only beat the first car to it's destination by less than a minute. The same is true for gearing. Both cars traveled with the same gears, but the one going faster experienced higher rpms -- much like higher gears. Get it?

    The only aspects that can be changed to make a vehicle operate more efficiently (barring any weight savings and super skinny tires or aerodynamics) is to use that correct, low ratio gear and adjust tuning such that a certain timing, and AFR is comensurate with what the vehicle needs to operate. Once that is optimized, you can't do any better. Thus, the 2.93 gears are just about as good as it's going to get (gearwise). 2.73's might do slightly better, but with other tradeoffs, not to mention here.

    Some people just hate to admit such things or are just too obstanate to REALLY look into it. :rolleyes2 I deal with all kinds of personalities every day so I am used to debates and attitudes. No sweat off my back. So that's okay. I don't profit from arguing over it. Just don't try to debate me when I know I'm right. lol Or at least have suitable proof to argue. Otherwise you're just spewing unfactual information.

    As for his referrence to limos (stretched) then they should not have been added to the discussion if he's not including them in his point. I could talk about Saturns and Baseball teams and be in league with erronious information. I find it interesting that his first argument was that he had LT1 edit and programmed his own FW himself, and then changed his background info to "(I had over 100 of them ..." so I know argument. I could have a 1000, and still be inaccurate if I wanted. :drinker

    Anyone else who has legible data want to contribute? This IS good!

    Brian 96 FWB / 96 Impala SS (anyone figure out how to auto sig this list yet??)

  11. #41
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    But thats just one dude in a 94 Fleetwood limo, theres more then one out there, can you really base your results on one???

    I get 22 mpg highway, I was told i should be getting better for a stock LT-1, but you cant tell everyone all Fleetwoods get 22 mpg on the highway stock?

  12. #42
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Quote Originally Posted by carguy16
    But thats just one dude in a 94 Fleetwood limo, theres more then one out there, can you really base your results on one???

    I get 22 mpg highway, I was told i should be getting better for a stock LT-1, but you cant tell everyone all Fleetwoods get 22 mpg on the highway stock?

    That was merely an example. I don't have to poll all drivers of LT1 limos, much less all people with large cars to correctly state no one's getting 25 mpg!

    You've made a very weak statement.

    Brian 96 FWB / 96 Impala SS

  13. #43
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    Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Right, we forgot you're omnicient and something, while being reasonable and probably attainable, as long as you say it's not true then it's not true.


    An engine is most efficient at the rpm at which its torque is at peak. Less than that shouldn't net you much extra mileage.

  14. #44
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    Thumbs down Re: 21 MPG on the highway

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Right, we forgot you're omnicient and something, while being reasonable and probably attainable, as long as you say it's not true then it's not true.


    An engine is most efficient at the rpm at which its torque is at peak. Less than that shouldn't net you much extra mileage.
    ...and don't forget it.

    The LT1 engine's torque peak RPM value is ~4500 so in your world, I can drive around at 4500 rpms and save gas?...Oh, I'm sorry, 4499 rpms, then? I really just want to leaaarrrrn. :drinker Have another....

    Brian 96 FWB / 96 Impala SS
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  15. #45
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    Your mileage may vary

    In my 1995 Fleetwood brougham, I get about 15-18 MPG in mixed driving. I never got anywhere near the EPA ratings for this car, mainly because of my leadfoot driving. However, on a recent trip from Tampa FL - Savannah GA & back (about 800 miles total) I got 23.5 MPG, which was GRRRREAT (for me) , I suspect this was because I didn't leadfoot it for once (my wife was in the car bitching about my speed the entire trip).:drinker

    Bear in mind that my Fleetwood has some 163,000 miles on it, but you would never know by looking at it or driving it.

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