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69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

52K views 278 replies 28 participants last post by  CADforce69 
#1 · (Edited)
It´s time to open an “official restoration thread” for my ‘69 SDV, as someday it may help to someone who have similar car / similar problems. First I´m gathering up most pictures posted in different threads along the forum.

I bought the car from a man who seemed to be a compulsive collector of classic cars. He had a piece of land and a warehouse where he stored about 20 classics, Mercedes, Bentley, Cadillac, Lamborghini, Ford, Lincoln… In the past he had about 100 vehicles in this land, some inside and others outside the building. Now he needed some money and had to sell some of the cars. This one started easily, engine run very well, transmission worked apparently well (afterwords I discovered relevant trans fluid leakage) and brakes were apparently well, just some humming in transmission that did not worried me at first. The price was cheap and we made a deal. The car title was not very clear as he confessed but he bound himself to get everything solved so I was inscribed as the car´s owner and the car was ready to run legally. I advanced part of the money and the rest would be paid when I picked up the car. Doing the paperwork would take 1-2 months (Finally it turned to be 3 so I had to wait what it seemed to be an eternity for me).

Finally, on December 29 2010 I went to pick up the caddy, that was about 280 miles from home, with some paper still not ready but which I received some days later. The travel was a hell as I could check steering was very loose and front tires about 40 years old (and warped). The result was a horrendous trembling every time the car speed was over 25 mph and the road had any slight unevenness. Then I discovered that if I drove at more than 45 mph such effect did not take place. Later on, when I changed front tires the problem disappeared. I also changed tie rod ends, idler arm and drag link and since then, the car drove like heaven. Distributor timing was too advanced so when engine was hot at idle the car stalled when I turned the wheels to top right or left. Apart from that there was no incident (except for the red brakes light on but braking was good enough) and I managed to park it in my underground parking space not without some effort. It stick out near one meter, what aroused some complain.
A pic of the night travel:


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Some weeks later I took it to mi girl´s mum country house. It has no garage but I bought a good exterior car cover that is preserving it perfectly. Before that 55 mile travel I changed engine oil, oil filter, gas filter, air filter, sparks, spark wires, distributor cap and rotor. We tried to change points but with new points the car wouldn´t start. When I took the car to an experienced mechanic, he realized that there was not a good ground contact with new points installed. He solved the problem just with a file touch.
First pics of the engine: Dirt everywhere


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Distributor cap off and very worn tie rod ends:


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This plate is the original one. Registered in Madrid (Spain) on july 31 1969




I know: What are those lights doing in the rear bumper? Requirements to adapt the car to the european car light regulations. I´m planning taking that out, changing back up lights for turn lights (just an orange bulb and wire change) and looking for the original moldings (not very easy to find)



Rear view is spectacular. I love it! Original trunk lock emblem and "V" were broken. They were changed thanks to the help of Sven914



Rear fenders "Sedan de Ville" and trunk "Cadillac" badges were missing but later I got them back to its place.





There was a lot of work to do with chrome but I´m making it shine... These headlights were not OEM but an adaptation that former owner screwed on the headlight frame. New OEM type headlights would be installed later on. Left turn light would be also changed for another one in better condition the seller gave me with the car… Cracked but not broken.
 
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#207 ·
This week I took off my '69´s nozzles as they were clogged so the washer could not work although the pump seemed to work ok.

This is a detail of the driver side nozzle still attached by the hexagonal screw:

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Both nozzles off before and after a quick cleaning:

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Nozzles can be easily unclogged using a pin or a needle, then spraying some water back and forth until the debris inside is dragged (I used my mouth). :D

And now, here comes the problem: Now that nozzles are clean I realize that every time you turn on wipers washer pump is working and throwing water on the windshield :confused:. Probably, it was happening before but I could not see it. I got the wiper / washer motor changed by a remanufactured one last year. Maybe some connector is wrong?

Any idea on how can I fix this? :hmm:
 
#208 ·
Sounds to me like there's some kind of a problem between the wiper switch and the motor. Either the motor you replaced it with was slightly different (different year maybe?) or some wire got crossed?

I can look in my shop manual when I get home and see if I can find you a wiring schematic
 
#209 ·
I bought the motor from Rockauto as a unit for a 69 cadillac de ville and apparently it was the same as the old one.

You are right. I should have started by looking in the FSM:


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In page 12-21 and 12-22 there is also a checking procedure. Maybe the washer connector is plugged upside down? I´ll do some tests as suggested above :bigroll:
 
#211 · (Edited)
There has been some time since the last time I reported my caddy progress, due to lack of time after changing job.

In april I took Rex to the exhaust shop, which previously made most of the line, to change muffler -the only thing I didn´t change before, as it was almost acceptable-. After the detonations produced by the condenser fail, the small leak it had finally opened so it was noticeable by the sound of the car. This was not the original muffler but a very similar one; it was substituted by another similar to the original in stainless steel -like the rest of the line-. Now the car hardly produces a sound at idle. Some shots of the moment:




I also got a very cheap set of parts including an original 69-70 exterior mirror (long sought) working ok and with an acceptable chroming, as well as an interior one in perfect condition (mine has some stains on the glass edges). It´s a detail which has helped noticeably in visibility and aesthetics; the one the car had when I bought it had a very different base so it was slanted from the right angle. Besides, the cables were broken so no adjustment was possible:




This is how it looks now:



After so many years with the A/C inactive, I was recommended to make a deep cleaning before recharging the circuit so I protect the new elements I changed and guarantee a good working of the system. 15 days ago I took it to a shop recommended by a friend to get the circuit cleaned, above all the A/C radiator (evaporator), which was removed and cleaned in depth. Previously, compressor, expansion valve and drier bottle were changed; the system was checked to locate any eventual leak. It was recharged with original gas and oil in quantities advised by the FSM. The result is the A/C is working again silent and fresh. Next june 1, I will take Rex to a wedding so the couple will be comfortable also in the thermal sense :)

Now I´m waiting to receive a new steering box -the original one has some leak I was warned of during Safety Inspection- and a complete distributor. When winter is close I´m planning getting lower front fenders repaired and maybe I take these truck taillights off the rear fender. :p
 
#214 ·
Looking forward to see new pics of your caddy, Matt :thumbsup:

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Good to hear from you again CF69!

It has been a long road for you with Rex. I am glad to see you are now down to the little details, instead of major issues. Have fun and make some gas money on that wedding circuit this summer! You and Rex should be in high demand.:thumbsup:
Thanks Dave! Yeah, it´s been a long road but I have not felt it as so long, 'cause several friends has helped me and recommended me good professionals who made a good job without charging me a fortune. It has been an exciting adventure that has not ended yet... I´ll keep you posted ;)

As to the wedding business, it´s difficult nowadays getting clients due to the crisis we live here but I charge a very affordable price (the best for a caddy in the sorroundings). It´s always a help with the maintenance costs and an opportunity to drive with no worry about the gas :D
 
#217 · (Edited)
It has been some time since I made the last update here but only in the last weeks we have made relevant progress.

Finally I got the steering box changed. It leaked oil noticeably and it was somewhat loose considering all tie rod ends, idler arm and the drag link were changed. The strut bushings and the stabilizer bar center bushings were changed too, because they were in a worse than poor condition, as the alignment shop technician pointed out one year ago. When I took Rex back to the alignment shop everything could be perfectly adjusted (even the left front wheel camber, as the jammed adjustment nut could be finally moved) and guys it seems a different car. It drives almost like a modern car; steering is accurate and conveys even more confidence than before.

The generator and the P/S belts were also changed. Although they were little more than 2 years old, they squealed when you accelerated the engine to high RPM.

The distributor was also changed. It had some ground problems and the weight system were almost shattered. It required too much advance to get the car running right so when engine was at operating temperature and it was shut off, starting it again was difficult, as the starter seemed to be fighting against the engine at full compression. Now the engine runs better, I can notice a better performance and there are no hot starting problems.

I finally got a new oil filter and got oil and filter changed too. My next door parts shop sold me an "equivalent" filter that leaked oil (even when it was tightened to the limit) when the previous Fram PH 25 never leaked a drop. I could get locally an ACDelco PF24. At first no leak but when I arrived at the parking it leaked somewhat. Maybe it requires to be tighten a bit more... Now it´s the only leak left on this car.

Washer pump is still working all the time when wipers are on. it seems a problem with the control (this is a second hand one I bought from Ebay, in better condition than the original one). It seems the control is feeding constantly the washer relay so the ratchet wheel can never be freed. In addition, when i stop wipers, sometimes they hesitate to start again until I press the washer button slightly and they stop. I should look for a new control or try to fix it... Only if some friend with much better electricity knowledge helps me.

Next December 7th I have to pass again the annual safety inspection. When it´s done, it´s time to think of fixing lower fenders and facing my project to delete the truck taillights from the rear bumper. USA Parts Supply sell lower fenders for $119.00 each... But when you enter a body shop you start thinking of fixing this or that and nobody knows how it can end :lol:
 
#218 ·
Once the oil filter was changed, it seems that part of the oil leak came from the front part of the oil pan gasket. It drips from the lower spike of the front (rounded) part of the gasket. The oil filter leak seems solved but now the problem is this part of the gasket.

According to the shop manual, to remove the oil pan on this model you need to remove engine from the vehicle chassis!:crying: A friend (he is a mechanic) told me that maybe another option is removing the front cover of the engine and changing just the front part of the gasket -as it is a separate part-.

How difficult is to remove the front cover of the engine? Has anyone done it? Maybe the most difficult part is removing crankshaft pulley...

On the other hand, in the last months, often on cold starts, there is a gas leak from the fuel pump area. After 4 minutes or so it ceases. It seemed to come from a hose just below the pump. It was changed and for some weeks there was no fuel leak but some days ago it happened again. I crept under the car engine and the leak seems to come from the upper part of the pump, like an overflow. Maybe it has some problem on the diaphragm so when the engine warms expansion fixes it temporarily. I have ordered a new fuel pump. I hope the problem is solved definitely.

During the Safety Inspection (I.T.V.) the technician of the station pointed out (in addition of the oil leak) that inner tie rod ends were loose (although they were changed 3 years and 6.000 miles ago). Fortunately the car passed inspection but I was told to change these tie rods. I have asked the mechanic who changed them to take a look. For both of us such a wearing seems incredible. He has proposed another solution for the oil leak: Emptying the engine oil, leaving the oil pan 2 days without any oil so the gasket gets as dry as possible and cleaning the pan with a solvent. After these 2 days applying a special coat to the pan and gasket to seal it. This seems easy at least; maybe it´s worth trying it before we attempt the definitive solution.

Suggestions on any of the issues are welcome.

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I have been investigating about fixing the front fenders, rotten in their lower part. A friend of mine who happens to have a body shop thinks that it´s very difficult curing rust even when you cut the sheet by a healthy part, weld a patch and treat it to prevent corrosion. Sooner or later rust will appear again, he says. He advised me it´s better getting rust free fenders and just changing the bad ones for the good ones. I´ve been looking for rust free fenders but they don´t seem to be available for less than $ 600 a piece. Cadillacs Only offers reconditioned bare fenders that have had the rust parts repaired for that price, but I would like to find good non repaired ones for the above reason.

Any information about where could I find them? From Spain it´s more difficult as it´s not the kind of item sold by Internet. I could ship them to Miami, to a friend´s address so he would ship them to Spain in a container with more parts he buys in U.S.

So far I have only found this ad on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1970-C...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c339fb7f&vxp=mtr

Two pics of Rex in one of the last classic car meetings we attended december 1st. :






sube
 
#219 ·
Hello CADforce

I enjoy reading the story about your Caddy.

About your fenders, I would have to disagree with you bodyman for several reasons. To find a replacement fender is probably next to impossible, and if you find one they're not going to be cheap. GM cars of all type were notorious for rotting in the front corners. The rust may not be from salt, but from mud, leaves, pineneedles etc. They would plug up the drain holes and the fender would rot from the inside.

I would have your bodyman cut out the rusted and weld in a new piece. If he doesn't want to do it, find someone that will. If it is properly undercoated, there is no reason why that won't last. It will be the easiest and cheapest fix, and it may be your only fix. After you have it fixed you can look for new fenders and be selective.

Tom C.
 
#222 ·
Thank you for your comments, guys.

I´m afraid the damage is too extended (very close to the wheel arch) to use the patch panels that are for sale (in this case from USA Parts Supply). Rust seems to cross all the lower part of the fender:







This is the patch panel:





The only alternative to buying a pair of fenders is that the shop makes custom patch panels (lower half fenders). Today I talked to another place in California that had a pair of good fenders for sale. The price is $ 495 for each one. It seems to be the standard price. I would have to add the shipping to Miami ($275) and from there to Spain (Maybe other $70). I will have to talk with the bodyman. Probably if he does all the work it will be more economical -As suggested by silverfox103-and I´m afraid I will face the risk that it´s not a perfect solution. Your comments make me think that risk of rust reappearance can not be that bad, considering the car will be garaged all the time excluding short excursions and visits to the shop. It will by no means be a daily driver considering the gas prices here :p and the size of the vehicle for European standards. In addition, salt on the roads is very rare here in Madrid city.

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Hello CADforce

I enjoy reading the story about your Caddy.
Tom C.
Thanks Tom. I would like it serves of any help and hope for those who face a long restoration like mine, and for sharing our adventure with those who enjoy it as I enjoyed so many similar stories which served me as an inspiration :)

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Great pics of Rex. Always love seeing that beast. Also, that mustang in the last pic looks very similar to my wife's father's mustang that we recently restored.
Thank you Matt. My girl always asks me if I don´t get tired of taking pics of Rex every day I take it for a walk :D That mustang was in a perfect condition in every aspect. As I learned, it took the owner years bringing the car to Spain due to some problem with paperwork. Congrats for your father-in-law´s mustang. It´s a beautiful car and very maneuvrable for European streets. That color is perfect for this model.
 
#220 ·
silverfox103 said:
Hello CADforce

I enjoy reading the story about your Caddy.

About your fenders, I would have to disagree with you bodyman for several reasons. To find a replacement fender is probably next to impossible, and if you find one they're not going to be cheap. GM cars of all type were notorious for rotting in the front corners. The rust may not be from salt, but from mud, leaves, pineneedles etc. They would plug up the drain holes and the fender would rot from the inside.

I would have your bodyman cut out the rusted and weld in a new piece. If he doesn't want to do it, find someone that will. If it is properly undercoated, there is no reason why that won't last. It will be the easiest and cheapest fix, and it may be your only fix. After you have it fixed you can look for new fenders and be selective.

Tom C.
I completely agree. In fact this was one of the "easier" areas of rust to repair in my 68. Really easy to create patch panels, though I think these may be available commercially now.
 
#226 ·
Thanks for the info, csbuckn. I already contacted Cadillacs only. They offer reconditioned bare fenders that have had the rust parts repaired for $595 :hmm: Maybe I contact some of the dealers who seem to have no rust ones.

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Hello CADforce

I am also active on the wagon site, as are quite a few other guys on this forum. We have a Wagon of the Month feature every month. About a year ago, we had a story that you may enjoy which is related to your body repair problems:

http://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t7639-december-12-wagon-of-the-month

Tom
It´s amazing what this guy did for his car, and the damage salt on the road can make even to more modern cars (in theory enjoying better anti-rust treatments). A necessary condition is having a place where you can work. That´s one of my dreams I have to fulfill yet. I admire these people who can do these miracles with a car others would have sent to the car wreck.

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Hey CADforce,

Last winter I did the timing chain on Daisy. The shop manual said to remove the oil pan for this job to ensure the seal at front cover.

After opening it up and noticing the chain had been replaced and I wouldn't have to scoop up bits of plastic from the oil pan I did not want to pull the engine so I gambled that I could seal it up without removing oil pan.

If you follow the instructions to remove front cover minus the oil pan you can silicone that bottom seal. I let the silicone cure for several days before refilling oil and running engine. Hasn't leaked a drop.

The front cover is pretty simple. The biggest challenge is removing the harmonic balancer. I don't think you could get the puller on without removing the radiator. But removing the radiator and pulling front cover is a lot easier than pulling engine.
Thank you, smelvis. The mechanic who made most of the work in my caddy said the same yesterday: If you want to change the front part of the oil pan gasket you should remove the oil pan (at least one centimeter -but if you do this, you should change the entire gasket-)... Sealing the bottom seal is another idea I heard from a friend but I doubted if it would work. That´s another possibility though as I suspected too, radiator would need to be removed.

There is another alternative the mechanic has offered: Draining the engine oil for 2 days and cleaning as much as possible the oil remains, applying a specific solvent and then applying a special coating to seal the leak. The advantage is you don´t have to remove anything and it's cheap. If this fails we can always try the other solution.
 
#227 ·
CADforce69 said:
Thanks for the info, csbuckn. I already contacted Cadillacs only. They offer reconditioned bare fenders that have had the rust parts repaired for $595 :hmm: Maybe I contact some of the dealers who seem to have no rust ones.

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It´s amazing what this guy did for his car, and the damage salt on the road can make even to more modern cars (in theory enjoying better anti-rust treatments). A necessary condition is having a place where you can work. That´s one of my dreams I have to fulfill yet. I admire these people who can do these miracles with a car others would have sent to the car wreck.

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Thank you, smelvis. The mechanic who made most of the work in my caddy said the same yesterday: If you want to change the front part of the oil pan gasket you should remove the oil pan (at least one centimeter -but if you do this, you should change the entire gasket-)... Sealing the bottom seal is another idea I heard from a friend but I doubted if it would work. That´s another possibility though as I suspected too, radiator would need to be removed.

There is another alternative the mechanic has offered: Draining the engine oil for 2 days and cleaning as much as possible the oil remains, applying a specific solvent and then applying a special coating to seal the leak. The advantage is you don´t have to remove anything and it's cheap. If this fails we can always try the other solution.
I did loosen the pan in front and cleaned everything meticulously. I think the second option would work if you clean it properly. You may have to re seal in a few years but its simple enough. That's probably what i would try first if you have no other reason to pull the front cover. I would also clean and scuff the metal an inch or so past the seam and put a wider bead for the sealer to bite. I did that on an old junker and it held for 3 years.
 
#228 · (Edited)
Hello guys,

After the apparently bad hose was replaced, there still was a fuel leak. Finally I got the fuel pump changed as it seemed to leak by the top, and the other hose I had not changed yet. Now, no gas leak. The oil pan coating treatment apparently works, as after a 6 mile ride (including highway) there is no leak. Tomorrow I want to take the caddy to a classic car meeting 30 miles from home, so that will be the litmus test. Prior to the treatment I took the car to receive an under-carriage washing. It really needed it and this helps to trace any oil leak.

I have talked with the body guy. In the next week I want to meet him so he checks the fenders and decide if I have to ask a pair of patch panels or otherwise he´ll do all the work alone. It will be definitely cheaper than bringing fenders in good condition from U.S. to Spain.

Not long to go! I´ll keep you posted.
 
#229 ·
Finally, Rex entered the clinic for his cosmetic surgery. I know the body shop owner, as he is a classic car lover (in fact, he has 4 classic cars) and he does occasionally some restoration jobs and I think he is professionally and personally trustworthy.

Rex will get his front lower fenders repaired and the patchy taillights in bumper changed for '70 moldings, with the '70 back up lights used as turn signals using orange bulbs (see page 12). I tried to do it by myself but the hole on the bumper needed to be widen to the edges 1-2 inches and I don´t have a radial saw to do this. In addition, the body shop guys have more experience and resources to make a good transformation. We´ll take this opportunity to remove some rust on the lower front of the driver´s door opening and fixing some swollen paint on the left quarter panel valley, where it joins to the body. We´ll try to fix the driver´s door hinges, as the door is sagging and hits when closed, so I bought a pin & bushing repair kit.

I bought from Ebay a right hand front fender wheel well trim molding as the original one is broken and also a pair of front upper bumpers (both sides) as chrome on originals were damaged due to scratches (cornering by ear). I was lucky with the driver side to be a used one but the passenger side chrome was completely faded once washed and polished so I had no other option than plate chroming it. A friend gave me a good plate chroming shop address time ago so I sent this part to them and the results are excellent as you can check on the pics. They fixed even most of deep rust marks made by water under the rubber molding. Some traces remained (too deep to be completely sanded) but they will be hidden under the fenders and the rubber molding. This is the right time to change these parts and improve definitively the front end look.

New wheel well trim molding and front upper bumpers before cleaning:











After cleaning (driver side fairly good):




Passenger side faded chrome and rust marked:






Passenger side plate chromed again:








... And finally Rex at "clinic" awaiting surgery:

 
#233 ·
Thank you guys...

Matt, it´s true that looks great if you watch it from more than 10 ft. but if you get closer you can find a lot of things that should or could be improved.
Dave, 1969-70 front bumper consists of 5 sections bolted together so when it´s damaged partially you don´t have to look for a new one; just the bad part. Rear bumper consists of only 3.

Now I remember I didn´t tell the body guy the door sills paint is in an awful condition. In fact it falls in flakes so I had to apply last year a touch-up brush for some of the weddings I did. Probably next week I call him to see what can he do.

I wish we all lived closer so we could compare our caddies some day ;)
 
#234 ·
Next thing I will have to do after Rex leaves clinic is changing inner tie rod ends. During the last safety inspection in December I was told they were too loose, what surprised me as these are one of the first things I got changed (all tie rod ends + center link + idler arm). They have made less than 5500 miles, so I suspect the ones I bought were bad quality ones. These are the ones I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Steering-...969|Make:Cadillac&hash=item20e18fcf6c&vxp=mtr I should have suspected it for the price ($100 a pair) They advertised "limited lifetime warranty", but in my case claiming this warranty is a problem, as I should remove them from the car, send them (shipping cost use to be at customer charge and from Spain to USA it´s probably more than $50) and wait until they decide if they will send me a new pair (No shop would be happy with this method given the huge size of the car and the tiny size of shops here). Consequently, I´m looking for a new supplier as in addition I don´t trust this product anymore (Unfortunately Rockauto don´t sell this part). OPGI seems to sell the same model: http://www.opgi.com/cadillac/1969/chassis-suspension/steering-components/CE01376/

I found this on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Parts-...969|Make:Cadillac&hash=item460ce517ea&vxp=mtr more expensive but maybe better?

Rubber the Right Way have them available too: http://www.rubbertherightway.com/1969-cadillac-restoration-parts-tie-56706-prd1.htm but they were the guys that sold me the front upper bumpers, one of which chrome was toast.

Caddy Daddy have them also available: http://www.caddydaddy.com/1965-1966...RODUCTION-Free-Shipping-In-The-USA-p3589.html

Has anyone changed his 65-70 caddy inner tie rod ends and after years and miles is happy with the results? Who did you buy from? If the seller could send the part overseas would be great.

Thank you in advance :)
 
#235 · (Edited)
Hello guys, I have some updates,

Last Sunday the body guy sent me some pics of the work done during the last two weeks. Front bumper is off and upper bumpers were changed (Not the best pic quality due to the poor light):









Front fenders were removed and they started working on them:









It seems the driver side is the most damaged one, but both have an ugly look after removing the paint flakes. Nevertheless, lower inner walls look solid:







The damage is very extended from one side to the other. The most rotten part is near the wheel arch but the arch nerve could be saved on the driver side, so repair has been easier. You can see the original shalimar gold paint under the later layers:



All the rotten steel sheet has been cut off:



New steel part welded on its place and sanded:



They have used 1 milimeter section steel sheet:



They still have to work on the passenger side, driver door hinges, rear bumper, rust on the lower front of the driver´s door opening and swollen paint on the left quarter panel valley, but we can already see some progress.
 
#238 ·
^Yeah, I think I was right to choose him, as he has proved to be a serious and professional person so far... As to the money, if I had bought a new pair of fenders and got them shipped to Spain it would have cost more than $1,300 before removing the old ones, painting and fitting the new, so I´m starting with that credit in my pocket :D

You are right. After all it´s very difficult buying a really good used part (specially a scarce one) when you can not see it with your own eyes so you may end up repairing the new one sooner or later. This way it´s more difficult getting wrong ;)
 
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