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RWD 19xx-1984 DeVille and Fleetwood,
1985-1996 Fleetwood and Brougham Forum Discussion, 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Hey, R12 is hard to come by, but not impossible. It is actually for sale in the USA, yet a ...
  1. #61
    PRdeVille's Avatar
    PRdeVille is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Hey,

    R12 is hard to come by, but not impossible.
    It is actually for sale in the USA, yet a copy of Refrigeration Technician Certification has to be supplied (haven't done this route).

    The other simple way would be to buy R12 cans in the Dominican Republic, as they still manufacture the gas, and sell it without restrictions.

    If you're interested in that second option, let me know... I can help you out.

  2. #62
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    My friendīs friend bought a great amount of R12 when he knew distribution was going to be banned. He still has some amount but not much. Thanks for the info. In Spain now R12 is more and more difficult to find too.

    Now my main problem with A/C system is that compressor squeaks noticeably everytime I connect it (automatic, fog or ice). Someone told me it can be worn bearings; maybe I have to take it to repair. Has someone experienced anything similar?

  3. #63
    CBodyFan is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PRdeVille View Post
    The other simple way would be to buy R12 cans in the Dominican Republic, as they still manufacture the gas, and sell it without restrictions.

    If you're interested in that second option, let me know... I can help you out.
    Freon (R12) is illegal to import into the United States.

  4. #64
    sven914 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    ^Right... Not only will you face heavy fines and possible prison sentences, but the stuff produced in the Dominican (or Russia, or China, or any other place) does not meet any industry standard; it will destroy your system.

    I am not familiar with Spanish law, but you might want to check into "Freeze-12" (there might be a different variation available to your country). It is a blend of refrigerant that mixes with R-12, works with all R-12 components, and cools just as adequately.

    Here in the United States, auto recycling yards are required to recover all refrigerant. If Spain has a similar law, then you should be able to find some reclaimed R-12 at the recyclers. But if it is anything like here, you will need some sort of refrigerant certification to purchase them; if you don't have a certification maybe you could get a friend with a garage (that does A/C Service) to pick up the bottles.

  5. #65
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    I know there is a R-12 substitute that is also sold here but Iīve heard it doesnīt work very well. I could not tell why. recycled R-12 is a very interesting idea. Iīll check if that way is possible here.

  6. #66
    68 Deville Rag is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Just caught up on the whole project... Great car! Can't wait to see how you finish it off.

    I sure wish my car was running, I miss driving it.

  7. #67
    PRdeVille's Avatar
    PRdeVille is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Freon is DuPont's trademark.

    R-12 is presently manufactured in the USA.
    I haven't heard or seen bad stuff happening from Dominican Republic R-12.

    More power to you.

    ===
    As to the squeaking compressor:
    Are you 100% sure you have the right belt?
    Two things:
    First, that belt has to be tight like a solid pole.
    Second, there are two belts with the correct length... yet one is "slimmer".
    This slim one (thinner) goes deeper into the V-grove, and squeals.
    The fatter belt rests more "outside" of the V-grove, and works as it should.

    Let us know how it goes!

  8. #68
    sven914 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    ^Under the Montreal Protocol (damn Canadians) the production of CFC-12, was banned in 1994 and all manufacturing of R-12, in the United States, ceased in 1996.

  9. #69
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PRdeVille View Post
    Freon is DuPont's trademark.

    R-12 is presently manufactured in the USA.
    I haven't heard or seen bad stuff happening from Dominican Republic R-12.

    More power to you.

    ===
    As to the squeaking compressor:
    Are you 100% sure you have the right belt?
    Two things:
    First, that belt has to be tight like a solid pole.
    Second, there are two belts with the correct length... yet one is "slimmer".
    This slim one (thinner) goes deeper into the V-grove, and squeals.
    The fatter belt rests more "outside" of the V-grove, and works as it should.

    Let us know how it goes!
    This is something I thought as a possible cause but it seemed to me compressor oiling would be more likely. Iīll have to check this issue as first step is discarding easy problem sources.

  10. #70
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PRdeVille View Post
    As to the squeaking compressor:
    Are you 100% sure you have the right belt?
    Two things:
    First, that belt has to be tight like a solid pole.
    Second, there are two belts with the correct length... yet one is "slimmer".
    This slim one (thinner) goes deeper into the V-grove, and squeals.
    The fatter belt rests more "outside" of the V-grove, and works as it should.

    Let us know how it goes!
    This is something I thought as a possible cause but it seemed to me compressor oiling would be more likely. Iīll have to check this issue, as first step is discarding easy problem sources. As a matter of fact, now I remember the first time the car did this noise was turning the wheels totally with A/C on (Same belt moves also power steering pump) Thanks for the reminder.

  11. #71
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Deville Rag View Post
    Just caught up on the whole project... Great car! Can't wait to see how you finish it off.

    I sure wish my car was running, I miss driving it.
    I hope soon I take it to get the exhaust fixed and reupholster the interior, what will improve look a lot. After that, get fixed parking brake, backup lights, horn in the steering wheel, A/C system and gearbox gaskets and seals changed, what will close another stage of the process to start details like fixing radio (or installing a modern hidden one), changing exterior mirror for an original one or installing '70 rear bumper moldings to hide the hole made for truck aftermarket tail lights (back up lights inside moldings will be used for European yellow turn lights), and cure lower front fender rotting.

    Fortunately, I have driven the car from time to time through the fixing and restoring process. This cheers you up a lot; getting the car stopped for a long time would be difficult to stand for me; I passed through it with my other classic car, but itīs something that a classic car owner must be prepared to face. Last Sunday I met a man that owned a gorgeus '76 Eldorado convertible. The car passed through a complete restoration process but as he explained to me, he did it by stages so that he could enjoy driving his caddy for some months after every stage was finished. He told me that this way he never got discouraged in spite of the whole process lasted 12 years.

  12. #72
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CADforce69 View Post
    This is something I thought as a possible cause but it seemed to me compressor oiling would be more likely. Iīll have to check this issue, as first step is discarding easy problem sources. As a matter of fact, now I remember the first time the car did this noise was turning the wheels totally with A/C on (Same belt moves also power steering pump) Thanks for the reminder.
    Iīve just checked the 2 A/C - Power steering belts I ordered and got installed last february (less than 200 miles driven since then): They are 0.38 x 59.5". FSM says measures are 0.38 x 59.0" for both, but length difference should be compensated by pump bracket adjuster slot screw. Maybe I have to check tension as I think new belts use to need readjustment after some hundreds of miles.

  13. #73
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Last Monday I took Rex to the exhaust shop the mechanic recommended me. Got changed central pipe -which had more than one hole and was somewhat crushed by hits suffered over its life- and redone final section that was missing. We decided leave muffler and curve over rear axle, as they seemed in a reasonably good condition. They did a really good job, as new line is closer to the floor panel (before, I often hit exhaust when climbing steep ramps, once even in a uneven surface road at 55 mph). Final section was done copying original one from a pic I showed them.

    New sections were fixed by clamps -not welded- to ease further changes or fixings and they are made of stainless steel, so they should last forever (or at least for all of my life). At the point where central section joined with the one coming from manifolds there was some bottleneck so they cut it to improve joint. Iīve noticed an improvement in the car sound; even the manifold leak sounds less.

    They love American classics and have done several jobs for this type of cars -not very common here in Spain- and love them. (The guy running the shop has a '97 Camaro) and have made even some parts difficult to find in their lathe.

    When I took the car last Tuesday I went to one of one of the upholsterers that gave me a quote -this one had to be adjusted as they could not see the car-. They closed the price and I left the caddy yesterday in their shop. Another friend -also a mechanic- highly recommended me this shop, as they are one of the best in Madrid and they use to do every kind of classic cars. They even have made a Rolls and a Lincoln. They will have to do everything except for headliner, even redo most of the front bench, as part of the frame is broken. Finally I decided to use leather for seats and synthetic leather for door panels, seat sides and all of the rest, keeping original colors and pattern. Original cloth was not very popular for almost everyone who saw the car and is more fragile and difficult to clean as possibly I hire the car in the future for weddings or movie filming to recover part of the restoring expenses. The man owning and running the shop offered me to check if radio can be fixed and change speakers (theyīre toast) as his brother has an auto-sound shop nearby. I think this is a good opportunity as probably the car will be there for a month or more. They are more than sixty years old so probably the brother is familiar with these old radios. If FM worked again I could use a MP3 player that can be heard by the carīs speakers tuned by a frequency of the radio. Letīs see.

    Below you can see some pics I took of the exhaust job when the car was still on the elevator. Sorry for the poor quality; they were made with my phone camera:


















    image upload

  14. #74
    mpride is offline Awaiting Email Confirmation
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    I'm kinda new to this site and to the idea of purcashing an older Cadillac but I sure have enjoyed reading this thread. Very nice car and great to see the work you've done! Keep'em coming.

  15. #75
    CADforce69 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 69 Sedan de Ville official restoration thread

    Thanks In Spain they are very expensive; normally prices above $ 20,000 even when you have to fix many things. This cost me $ 8,500; it needed some work but most of paint, engine and trans were ok. You are lucky as in the US you can find one in really good condition for $ 13-14,000. They are incredible machines that make you travel in time and space. I consider restoring one of them a privilege.

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