Anybody done any Pro-Touring mods?

[XB12R]

I've done a search and didn't find anything too helpful. I'm shopping for a clean FWB and want to modify it into a MB BMW killer sleeper. I've got my eye on an unmolested '85 that might do the job. Mods I have planned are suspension either air or the right coils (maybe even a vette IRS), big brakes, LS7 , and keeping the whole package looking original except for some subtle rims and decent tires and a couple inches lower...

So, anybody gone this route?

[Angry Matt]

That's an awesome idea. I've been working on a similar budget version for some time now. The thread on here about lowering got me the inspiration to buy a set of eibach coils for the '96 Impalas. These apparently have the same diameter and drop right in. I got about a 4" drop out of them with no bottoming out and a nice firm ride. You can easily swap the rear for a better ratio with one of the many other cadillac factory opted ones or some chevy's will bolt up. There's a million different mods you could do. You anywhere near the east coast? I'm looking for somebody to race with this summer.

[jayoldschool]

The ultimate Pro Touring Cadillac was the Fleetwood Brougham coupe that won Car Craft's Real Street Eliminator challenge. Ran 11.80s!

http://www.jherush.com/schwartzperformance/cadillac.htm

[Angry Matt]

Good call, I forgot about that thing. Love the fact that he used a caddy motor in it.

[XB12R]

Thanks guys, I knew I had seen one in the past and the Schwartz Caddy was the one. There has to be more than a couple in the eight years since then.
I'm going to go kick some tires today around Tampa, and try to find one that still has bumper fillers on her. I found the ABS aftermarket ones, anybody do them in steel or aluminium?

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Cool idea! I thought about doing something like that (as I called it, "an '87 Brougham that could out run an M5") back when I was in high school, but it never came to fruition.

[Cadillacboy]

If I happen to buy a '89 Brougham D'elegance ,I will swap the engine and do some little mods , I mean little lol

[ShadowLvr400]

You'll be following me man. 96 Fleetwood, motor wise, RAISS air intake, Clear Image Budget exhaust headers, Johnny Winters built tranny with a 2500 stall, 218/224 cam, with the beehive valve springs. I use LT1 Edit. Calculated horse, 315 +- and 380 torque +-. Used to have a 3.42 posi rear end, that grenaded and my budget has me on a baseline 2.56 open agai for now. HAWK performance brake pads (still using the ferro based, not the ceramics. Testing THOSE on my mom's BMW 740 iL.) Switched to the ATE elliptical slotted rotors. Looking at 17 inche wheels with sticky rubber when budget allows, along with the Air Ride Technologies full setup. Also have a set of seats from a 2004 GTO I'm going to graft in, nice Buckets. Current 1/4 is 14.53 at 98 I think it was. And tranny problems at that time. Now I don't have the 3.42 rear end, so I'm not sure. Top speed has shown itself to be over 137. Don't ask for details.


PS: Almost forgot, Ravin high flow mufflers, so not so sleepy. 153k on the clock. LT1

[ShadowLvr400]

Ok, I was a bit rushed this morning, and you're looking for ideas of where to go...

Handling
First off, wheels and tires. I'd recommend 18" wheels since there's still a LOT of sporty tires available for them. I've been finding that a 15" wheel is now almost exclusively light truck tires. Not even any sport truck tires left.
Suspension wise, there's 2 major options. Pirate 9C1 Impala parts, including Eibach springs, hotchkis sway bars and shocks, etc, or go to air ride technologies, http://www.ridetech.com/shop/index.p...roduct_id=6448 And the cool-ride setup, or try to build a shockwave style one. As a note, on stock setup, the Impala boys have found a specific alignment to aim for, and I'm experimenting with it right now. So far, seems good.
Brakes, I personally, would want to switch to 4 wheel disc, which once again, pirate Impala parts, and as a good overall brake pad, Hawk Performance has done very well for me. Rotors wise, I've begun testing on ATE elliptical slotted, and so far, they haven't cracked, warped, broken or otherwise given me problems. They're a tentative good buy, but my testing is still under way.
Weight, as always, hunt for ways to drop pounds. Lighter batteries, fiberglass panels, etc. Hard to do, but it's something if you find anything. Oh, and let me know on that one.

Power... Lt1... Evil giggle.
Yea... the power mods available for the LT1 are pretty damn extensive. The standard iron heads actually flow damn well, so you can get away with a cam, and valvetrain there without doing new heads. So far, I've been pretty happy with my 218/224 , though on the Impala page is a HUGE thread on various cam options. I picked something in the middle road level of cams, partly based on the extra 400 lbs my car has to her. Daily manners are good, with it being a bit sleepy down low, not quite as instant guts as stock, however, over about 2800, it pulls noticeably harder than stock. Idle has a mild lope, fun, and noticeable, but nothing drastic. No vacuum issues detected, ac, brakes, etc all work fine.
Air flow
Intakes vary, if money's not an issue, or you can find a great deal, RAISS style is a great intake. It sucks air from directly behind the grill and just goes right into the motor. Others are out there, but so far this seems to be the best one. Headers, this company here is the easiest. Oddly, the budget set fits on the D body cars very well, and they're simple, and efficient. A little more low end picked up, and noticeable top end given too.
http://www.clearimageautomotive.com/

And I'll continue in a little bit, dinner time.

[ShadowLvr400]

A note on power/engine for the LT1, get a programmer. TunerCat or LT1 Edit. I use LT1 Edit, which has a lot of options, but is not exactly user friendly. I might try TunerCat when I have the money or friend with it.

Drivetrain
Transmission buildups are fairly common. The 4L60E is pretty stout, but at 125k give or take, most give up the ghost. On a rebuild, do NOT let them use the stall converter from an S10. It fits, but not strong enough. What kind of a build you get, and what stall you go for depends heavily on what engine mods you do. The more aggressive the cam, the higher stall speed you'll need. I've got a Johnny Winter's 2500-2800 stall done by a local builder. It runs a little tighter than that, but has shown itself to be very nice with my cam.
Rear ends, POSI! Plain and simple, when you get to the rear end, do a build with a good posi unit. Gearing is your choice, but for a good overall set, I'd recommend 3.27-3.42 units. The main reason, is that this gives enough gear to give a nice boost on launches, but still allows you to cruise down the highway at a reasonable rpm. I toasted my 3.42 posi, and am currently back on the evil 2.56 open, but when I can, I'm building again to a 3.27 posi. The motors have enough torque and powerband to benefit from a taller gear. Even a 3.08 would work well.

Interior work, you're on you're own. Sorry, but audio is my brother's realm.

[N0DIH]

You mean you STILL have that 2.56 in there? AHHHHHHHHH

Ok, I have my 3.08 posi in there still too. I have to build up my 3.42's with posi. I have a line on some 3.90's too... 2250 cruise rpm to 2500, no biggie....

Mods? I would do for pro-touring as a min. Looks is up to you. If serious about crazy power, go Vortec 454 or 8100 and mod it with a 4L80E.

9C1 body to frame bushings
9C1 wipers (have factory wings)
9C1 brake cooling mods
9C1 power steering box (or use 82-92 WS6 Trans AM steering box)
9C1 95-96 5/8" ball joint mod (replace lower control arm and spindle) to HD one for cop cars. This was pirated from the 71-76 B/C/D cars. Later the joint was used on Astro minivans. So still a common item and HD compared to the spindly 9/16" lower ball joint we have. Not even V4P tow package cars got the big joint, only 9C1 and 9C6 cars.

70-81 F-Body 1.25" front sway bar or Herb Adams or HO Racing monster bar.
HA/HO rear bar, can we say 1.5" yes we can.... Recommend HIGHLY to fully box rear control arms with them, these have been known to break stockers.

Impala SS front springs are identical spring RATE to FE2 touring suspension and tow package cars. Just shorter. so ride same, but lower.
9C1 springs are MUCH stiffer and stock height, They can be trimmed down. I have a set to get in my car one of these days. These are serious springs.

Walker Dynomax 17749 mufflers, no resonators. Rumors are the 83-88 Monte Carlo SS tailpipes can be made to work for visible chrome pipes.
Get a mandrel bend dual exhaust in there.
Headers are a great mod, but few fit that aren't $500+. It is worth it. Do NOT remove the welded in braces, they really help the big heavy chassis stiffness.

PCM Tuning like ShadowLvr400 said.

Engine?
383 crank and cam in the 218-224 range, Lunati VooDoo is best choice for serious power.

Trans
TransGo HD2 valve body kit
replace accumlators with pinless.
Start with V4P Separator plate from appropriate year trans (important on the year, else don't do)

Gearing
3.42 or higher numerically. It is a heavy car, use the gears. 3.73's are common but if you fast all the time, people complain the rpms are too high. Pair up gears with cam's powerband.

Converter
Get a good one! Matched to cam and gears.

A note on power/engine for the LT1, get a programmer. TunerCat or LT1 Edit. I use LT1 Edit, which has a lot of options, but is not exactly user friendly. I might try TunerCat when I have the money or friend with it.

Drivetrain
Transmission buildups are fairly common. The 4L60E is pretty stout, but at 125k give or take, most give up the ghost. On a rebuild, do NOT let them use the stall converter from an S10. It fits, but not strong enough. What kind of a build you get, and what stall you go for depends heavily on what engine mods you do. The more aggressive the cam, the higher stall speed you'll need. I've got a Johnny Winter's 2500-2800 stall done by a local builder. It runs a little tighter than that, but has shown itself to be very nice with my cam.
Rear ends, POSI! Plain and simple, when you get to the rear end, do a build with a good posi unit. Gearing is your choice, but for a good overall set, I'd recommend 3.27-3.42 units. The main reason, is that this gives enough gear to give a nice boost on launches, but still allows you to cruise down the highway at a reasonable rpm. I toasted my 3.42 posi, and am currently back on the evil 2.56 open, but when I can, I'm building again to a 3.27 posi. The motors have enough torque and powerband to benefit from a taller gear. Even a 3.08 would work well.

Interior work, you're on you're own. Sorry, but audio is my brother's realm.

[jayoldschool]

9C1 power steering box (or use 82-92 WS6 Trans AM steering box)

The 9C1 box is the same as the SS box.

9C1 95-96 5/8" ball joint mod (replace lower control arm and spindle) to HD one for cop cars. This was pirated from the 71-76 B/C/D cars. Later the joint was used on Astro minivans. So still a common item and HD compared to the spindly 9/16" lower ball joint we have. Not even V4P tow package cars got the big joint, only 9C1 and 9C6 cars.

All 96 b bodies got the big joint. The switch happened in mid 95.

70-81 F-Body 1.25" front sway bar or Herb Adams or HO Racing monster bar.
HA/HO rear bar, can we say 1.5" yes we can.... Recommend HIGHLY to fully box rear control arms with them, these have been known to break stockers.

Actually, recommended to not even use boxed stockers. If you are going with a big rear bar, you need a sturdy aftermarket control arm. Do not use a big rear bar unless the front bar is upgraded to something like that F body bar.

Impala SS front springs are identical spring RATE to FE2 touring suspension and tow package cars. Just shorter. so ride same, but lower.
9C1 springs are MUCH stiffer and stock height, They can be trimmed down. I have a set to get in my car one of these days. These are serious springs.

There are better springs than the SS or 9C1 springs if one wants to get serious about performance.

Good suggestion on the Trans Go. I had one in my SS (combined with a Vette converter), and it was great. Of course, no where as good as the T56 and 4.10 rear gears. That combo is like taking 1000 lbs out of the car, while adding 50hp. Best mod I have ever done. If you really want to get serious about performance, the T56 swap (with 4.10s or 4.56s) would be one of the first things I would suggest. No other mod will give the return that this will.

[N0DIH]

Nope, the cop cars got RPO 7B3 which came with a special steering box. Specifically NOT the same as the FE4 suspended ImpySS



And the same with the lower control arms. They are noted again, specifically with RPO 7B3.



I parted out a 95 9C1 car, got to know it WELL....

The rates in the steering box might be the same, but most likely the 7B3 box is more effort or constant ratio, where the Impala could very well be a variable ratio or a near constant (but still variable).

http://www.indipalass.com/ARCHIVE/Te...%20Upgrade.htm

Archive of lots of good tech articles.....
http://www.indipalass.com/ARCHIVE/Te...h_articles.htm

[ShadowLvr400]

You mean you STILL have that 2.56 in there? AHHHHHHHHH

Nope, I had 3.42 posi for about 4 years. But I kind of grenaded the diff, and because of budget, had to just grab a rear from a salvage Fleetwood, and it had the 2.56 again. Been back to that for like 2-3 months.

[shrike77]

what about shocks?
How do stock shocks fare with the 9c1 springs?
Should they be changed to bilsteins?