87 Fleetwood Brougham - trans whines when stopped and in gear

davidbruhn · #1 (**permalink**) 08-25-09, 01:07 AM

Hello,

Our 1987 Fleetwood Brougham was experiencing an occasional rough-shift symptom: driving 50 mph and letting off the gas would cause a shudder when it shifted as the car slowed. Also has a clunk when shifting from reverse to drive, which has been preliminarily diagnosed as a bad universal joint at the rear end, but has not been confirmed.

Biggest concern is this whining noise. With car in any gear, only while stopped, we have a pretty loud whining noise. As soon as we start driving, noise stops. Trans shifts up and down OK, but occasionally (more and more it seems) has a hard time shifting up and down. It never fails to shift, just seems like it's trying too hard to get there.

Thoughts?

sven914 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-25-09, 03:10 PM

Take it to a reputable transmission repair shop and have then perform a flush and filter change. When they change the filter they should cut it open and inspect if for metal shavings. If there are metal shavings present then you are going to need to have the transmission rebuilt. If there aren't any shavings, the flush will probably solve your problem.

drmenard · #3 (**permalink**) 08-25-09, 09:43 PM

A whine can be caused by a pluged filter or it could be a bad pump... I would change the filter and see how it acts... I would never recomend flushing ....It will do more harm than good....

sven914 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-25-09, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmenard

I would never recomend flushing ....It will do more harm than good....

Only when it's done improperly. Most chain garages (car dealerships included) do a half-assed job to conserve time. Their flush techniques are usually just flushing the lines and all of the crap into the filter, but they never drop the pan to put in a clean filter.

The correct way to perform a flush is to drop the pan first and then flush the lines in to the filter. The filter is then replaced and the transmission is filled with clean fluid. Just dropping the pan cannot get the crap out of the torque converter; crap which is then pumped through out the transmission by the no-longer clean, new fluid.

The only time a flush is not recommended is in cases of extremely high mileage transmissions that have never been flushed. When the friction material wears off the clutches it is absorbed into the fluid and helps prevent the transmission from slipping. Flushing the transmission in that case will cause slippage because there isn't enough friction material on the clutches to hold it in gear. The recommendation a in a scenario as that is a transmission rebuild with new friction material.

Stingroo · #5 (**permalink**) 08-26-09, 10:31 AM

So realistically, how often are you supposed to get a flush performed sven? Because "extremely high mileage" can mean a lot of different things depending on how the car was used.

Cadillac Giovanni · #6 (**permalink**) 08-26-09, 10:23 PM

There's a ton of debates that have occurred over the subject of flushing. I withhold my comments. I really can't speak for or against it.

But you can change the fluid and filter yourself, it's pretty easy. Check for metal shavings in the pan and in the filter. I've changed the fluid in my car twice since I've owned it, and I don't have much in the way of shavings. A small amount of sediment is present.

...But, that doesn't really mean anything, in my experience. I changed my differential oil, and inspected the casing and waste oil for any metal shavings, and it was totally clean. Then, 6 months later, my differential gave out.

sven914 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-26-09, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingroo

So realistically, how often are you supposed to get a flush performed sven? Because "extremely high mileage" can mean a lot of different things depending on how the car was used.

Fluids should be changed based on the service schedule(s) listed in the owner's manual. In cases of second hand cars with no documented service history, you can usually tell the amount of friction material in the fluid by looking the color of the transmission fluid. The brown is caused by shredded pieces of the clutch packs, which also causes slippage, which causes heat, which burns the fluid, giving it a darker color.

Higher mileage cars that have had the transmission fluid flushed based on the service schedule usually don't experience the brake down of the friction material, because ATF has friction modifier additives. Because the friction modifier in ATF wears out over time, the clutches can degrade at a lower mileage. Proper maintenance is really the difference between abuse and use.

RocketFast321 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-27-09, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmenard

A whine can be caused by a pluged filter or it could be a bad pump... I would change the filter and see how it acts... I would never recomend flushing ....It will do more harm than good....

You can flush it just not a power flush. Disconnect the lines at the rad. Use two buckets. One with new fluid and one for the old stuff.
Let the trans pump suck up the new fluid as it pumps the old stuff out.

sven914 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-28-09, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketFast321

You can flush it just not a power flush. Disconnect the lines at the rad. Use two buckets. One with new fluid and one for the old stuff.
Let the trans pump suck up the new fluid as it pumps the old stuff out.

After you do that you have to change the filter, because the old fluid and any debris in it will go through it before it reaches the bucket. For this purpose I would buy double the amount of ATF your transmission calls for (5L X 2 = about 2.6 gallons). When you drop the pan you may be able to recover some of the new fluid with a large (clean) backing pan.

But a power flush is recommended, because if the new fluid is traveling at the same rate as the old, then it won't brake up the dirt build up (it will just change the fluid in the torque converter).