81 FWB Coupe 8-6-4

[caddieboy]

I might be able to buy a 1981 Fleetwood Brougham Coupe with the 8-6-4 engine in it from the original owner who is an emderly gentleman. Only 60,000 original miles and it looks it. Only rust I could find were two small areas by the windshield, slightest of bubbling and a dusting of rust on the driver's side rocker. Otherwise completely solid! It could use a good wax and shine of chrome, and when done, it will sparkle like new. The cloth top is flawless without any sign of a crack. Burgundy-ish paint, velour interior, only the stock radio, no cassette. Armrest has one big crack but otherwise looks new. Antenna doesn't go up and down. I haven't seen a coupe quite like this before. I can grab it for about $2500 US. Seems reasonable to me considering the shape it's in, but would like to hear thoughts. Oh, and he showed me the invoice for new brakes, about $450 US paid.

Aside from price, a few more questions...

1. I'm just wondering if this car will be hard on the pocketbook as I've not had much experience with the 8-6-4. I know some say it has issues but I've also read (even on here) it's a great engine. Anyhoo, seems it's been running well so far, so should it be OK, right?

2. Also curious about MPG, even though you shouldn't be concerned about fuel economy with a car like this, and I'm not, just curious. Speaking of which, it has the fuel center that tells you the info I'm presently asking about. I hope it still works!!! Seems like it take 22 seconds to go from 0-60MPH. Sounds like my '87 Brougham, but I managed to get used to driving her, although I'll miss th epower of my '92's 5.7.

3. What parts off my '87 would fit on this beast, internal and external?

Thanks in advance!!!

[Bro-Ham]

Hi,

I sold a 1981 Fleetwood Brougham Coupe last year for $2,500. It had about 240k miles yet also had about $3,000 invested in it in new parts/tires/etc. My car had constant driveability issues related to the V8-6-4 and computers and I have heard the current owner continues to have these problems. Ape Man on this forum patiently and expertly answered lots of questions about the 1981's with this engine and its electronics and I suggest making contact to get some thoughts and advice.

Good luck!

Dave

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by Bro-Ham

Hi,

I sold a 1981 Fleetwood Brougham Coupe last year for $2,500. It had about 240k miles yet also had about $3,000 invested in it in new parts/tires/etc. My car had constant driveability issues related to the V8-6-4 and computers and I have heard the current owner continues to have these problems. Ape Man on this forum patiently and expertly answered lots of questions about the 1981's with this engine and its electronics and I suggest making contact to get some thoughts and advice.

Good luck!

Dave

Thanks Dave! Just out of curiosity, were the driveability issues later in the life of the car, or continuously from mile zero? Since it only has about 60k miles, perhaps I can get some painfree life out of it for a number of years? When I looked under the hood, I was kinda blown away by all the "extra stuff" and I'll admit is scared me a bit.

When the car was running, there were no lights on in the Fuel Economy control area. Could this mean the car was modified to run like a regular V8? I've heard of people pulling the switch on the 8-6-4 part of things.

Other than your driveability issues, how did you enjoy the car?

[The Ape Man]

There isn't anything wrong with the 8/6/4 engine and management. Many great bargains were had by those who learned a few things about how to keep these cars running. Now the thing will be an antique so parts are getting to be an issue. They can still be had but it takes time to find some necessary running spares like the ECM. If you can do most of your own work then there is hope. If you need a mechanic for everything then consider something else. Between the shop manual and this bulliten board you will be able to repair issues which WILL come up. Letting a mechanic guess and learn on your car will empty your bank account for sure.
That car is worth plenty if you don't unearth any more defects. Rust by the windshield is very unusual in these years. Look for body work and unmatched paint. The MPG panel lights should still be working after the 8/8/8 modification. Hold the off and warmer buttons on the climate control for a few seconds with the ignition in the run position and the climate control head should start to spit out any codes. It will then proceed to the "70" series of diagnostics where a bunch of switches can be checked. You can ignore this for now.
I searched for a clean FWB Coupe for 5 years before finding one with zero rust. They all seem to develop rust right where the vinyl top meets the rear quarter.
If you can take your time with the sale and post detailed pictures then maybe we can give it a thumbs up or down.

Good luck.

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by The Ape Man

There isn't anything wrong with the 8/6/4 engine and management. Many great bargains were had by those who learned a few things about how to keep these cars running. Now the thing will be an antique so parts are getting to be an issue. They can still be had but it takes time to find some necessary running spares like the ECM. If you can do most of your own work then there is hope. If you need a mechanic for everything then consider something else. Between the shop manual and this bulliten board you will be able to repair issues which WILL come up. Letting a mechanic guess and learn on your car will empty your bank account for sure.
That car is worth plenty if you don't unearth any more defects. Rust by the windshield is very unusual in these years. Look for body work and unmatched paint. The MPG panel lights should still be working after the 8/8/8 modification. Hold the off and warmer buttons on the climate control for a few seconds with the ignition in the run position and the climate control head should start to spit out any codes. It will then proceed to the "70" series of diagnostics where a bunch of switches can be checked. You can ignore this for now.
I searched for a clean FWB Coupe for 5 years before finding one with zero rust. They all seem to develop rust right where the vinyl top meets the rear quarter.
If you can take your time with the sale and post detailed pictures then maybe we can give it a thumbs up or down.

Good luck.

Thanks Ape Man! My mechanic now owns an 80 sedan with the 8-6-4 which he and his partner have worked on for quite a long time. He said he's had no serious issues, but maybe he thought I might want it. I do have a friend who has taught me and helped me do tune ups on my car. He has his own makeshift garage and quite knowledgable, so I could go to him when necessary.

I'm starting to think more about this purchase and whether or not I want to go down this road. So far all the cadillacs I've owned have driven like a dream and relatively low maintenance. Since I'm not in any hurry, would you advise waiting to find a Coupe with something in it where parts are relatively available?

My intention is to use this car as a daily driver and in the winter so I can keep my 1992 Brougham in mint condition. I love the way it looks, but I'm not sure I'll love the way it works, if you know what I mean. While I do have options with regards to maintenance, I'm so used to cars that just need oil and regular maintenance. So does this Coupe require more maintenance than the non-8-6-4 caddies out there?

[The Ape Man]

If your mechanic has an '80 with an 8/6/4 then that would be pretty unusual. The only year these were used in was 1981 except for later limosines.
If you want a winter beater then consider a 77,8,9 with a 425. You could get a CDV. The only year which you can have a compuker free FWB RWD coupe would be 1980. These are pretty hard to find. Production numbers were low that year. I have one here. Later years had the HT-4100. Just look at that section of this board if you are thinking along those lines. Again, you would want to stockpile a few parts for running spares after 1980. The full time 8 clyinder modification has nothing to do with a dark display.

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by The Ape Man

If your mechanic has an '80 with an 8/6/4 then that would be pretty unusual. The only year these were used in was 1981 except for later limosines.
If you want a winter beater then consider a 77,8,9 with a 425. You could get a CDV. The only year which you can have a compuker free FWB RWD coupe would be 1980. These are pretty hard to find. Production numbers were low that year. I have one here. Later years had the HT-4100. Just look at that section of this board if you are thinking along those lines. Again, you would want to stockpile a few parts for running spares after 1980. The full time 8 clyinder modification has nothing to do with a dark display.

Sorry, my mechanic has an 81 sedan with rhe 8-6-4.

I saw an ad for am 82 Coupe de Ville which I guess has the 4.1 liter V-8 engine. From what I can tell, it also has the Fuel Data Panel which I love!

I guess I should keep looking and find a Coupe with easy to find parts and an easier to work on engine. Thanks for being so helpful!!! I really appreciate it!!!

[The Ape Man]

If the car has the data panel then it must be DEFI so it's an 8/6/4 or an HT-4100. Maybe you can find a converted HT-4100 car. There should still be a few out there. Dunno how your local laws would treat this though.

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by The Ape Man

If the car has the data panel then it must be DEFI so it's an 8/6/4 or an HT-4100. Maybe you can find a converted HT-4100 car. There should still be a few out there. Dunno how your local laws would treat this though.

I think the '82 has the HT-4100. Just called the guy and when I asked his name, he said to call if I was interested in seeing the car. He also mentioned if I showed up with cash we could work something out. I don't get an easy feeling, so I'm going to forget about it.

I think I'll just bide my time, winter is a long way off. I have tons of time this summer to travel and maybe pick something up in the larger American market. Just keep my ear to the grindstone and watch out for something. I should consider a 77,78,79 as you mentioned. A calculator and gas reciepts and odometer can be my fuel data center.

[The Ape Man]

Calculator and a couple of fill-ups has better accuracy too. I've seen some very interesting fuel economy claims from folks without a calculator.

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by The Ape Man

Calculator and a couple of fill-ups has better accuracy too. I've seen some very interesting fuel economy claims from folks without a calculator.

Agreed! But I'll always enjoy Fuel Data Systems.

[jayoldschool]

The mileage/cyl display works fine on my 81 FWB coupe. It always is displaying "8" - the cylinder deactivation has been... deactivated. I would like to reconnect it, and use a switch to avoid the "6" stage. I am not sure, however, if the wire is disconnected/cut, or if the ECM is different. I will dig into it this summer...

[z06bigbird]

Originally Posted by caddieboy

I might be able to buy a 1981 Fleetwood Brougham Coupe with the 8-6-4 engine in it from the original owner who is an emderly gentleman. Only 60,000 original miles and it looks it. Only rust I could find were two small areas by the windshield, slightest of bubbling and a dusting of rust on the driver's side rocker. Otherwise completely solid! It could use a good wax and shine of chrome, and when done, it will sparkle like new. The cloth top is flawless without any sign of a crack. Burgundy-ish paint, velour interior, only the stock radio, no cassette. Armrest has one big crack but otherwise looks new. Antenna doesn't go up and down. I haven't seen a coupe quite like this before. I can grab it for about $2500 US. Seems reasonable to me considering the shape it's in, but would like to hear thoughts. Oh, and he showed me the invoice for new brakes, about $450 US paid.

Aside from price, a few more questions...

1. I'm just wondering if this car will be hard on the pocketbook as I've not had much experience with the 8-6-4. I know some say it has issues but I've also read (even on here) it's a great engine. Anyhoo, seems it's been running well so far, so should it be OK, right?

2. Also curious about MPG, even though you shouldn't be concerned about fuel economy with a car like this, and I'm not, just curious. Speaking of which, it has the fuel center that tells you the info I'm presently asking about. I hope it still works!!! Seems like it take 22 seconds to go from 0-60MPH. Sounds like my '87 Brougham, but I managed to get used to driving her, although I'll miss th epower of my '92's 5.7.

3. What parts off my '87 would fit on this beast, internal and external?

Thanks in advance!!!

Did you ever wonder why GM unloaded that car after only a short period of time? If you were a master mechanic with tons of contacts and a network to locate parts, that would still be a gamble for anybody.

$2500 is a lot of money for an old car that is replete with problems. If that engine was that good, why did GM unload it? They did not give up the 5.0 or the 5.7. They even kept the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 around for several years. Same with Northstar.

I had to put it this way, but ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?????

Please don't take that personally. Hell, you can locate almost any other Caddy and be happy. (Skip the 4100.) Fleecewood Broughams up until 91 are reliable and pretty. 92 + Fleecewoods are also nice. 95 and 96 run on regular. Even FWD Caddies are good, esp thru 93 or 94 with 4.5 and 4.9. I would skip the early Northstars because of POTENTIAL cooked engine problems.

That car with 4.6.8 will be a money pit.

Sorry.

[caddieboy]

Originally Posted by z06bigbird

Did you ever wonder why GM unloaded that car after only a short period of time? If you were a master mechanic with tons of contacts and a network to locate parts, that would still be a gamble for anybody.

$2500 is a lot of money for an old car that is replete with problems. If that engine was that good, why did GM unload it? They did not give up the 5.0 or the 5.7. They even kept the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 around for several years. Same with Northstar.

I had to put it this way, but ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?????

Please don't take that personally. Hell, you can locate almost any other Caddy and be happy. (Skip the 4100.) Fleecewood Broughams up until 91 are reliable and pretty. 92 + Fleecewoods are also nice. 95 and 96 run on regular. Even FWD Caddies are good, esp thru 93 or 94 with 4.5 and 4.9. I would skip the early Northstars because of POTENTIAL cooked engine problems.

That car with 4.6.8 will be a money pit.

Sorry.

There's no reason for me to take it personally, I haven't bought the car. And I'm not going to. I asked the questions, got the answers I expected, and all is well in the world. Mind is in head and intact.

Thanks for your take though. I treat all advice as gold. I'm not a big fan of the FWD caddies, sold my dad's 90 Fleetwood which I simply didn't like even though it had zero issues. I have a '92 Brougham but don't plan on driving it in the winter. I like the look of the big body coupes, we'll see what I find and what I end up doing. I have a solid 4 months to find something, which is pleanty of time to look around.

[The Ape Man]

Originally Posted by z06bigbird

problems.

That car with 4.6.8 will be a money pit.

Sorry.

Please tell me exactly what components on an 8/6/4 make it a money pit verses other Cadillacs of the same age. I must have missed something all these years.