Honestly, is a Northstar Cadillac a wise purchase for a ~20 year old?

[Cadillacboy]

Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792

I've heard that the 2000 Northstar was improved in the areas of reliability and efficency, that sounds like it's been much improved since the motor came out back in '93, am I correct? If I were to go newer than 2000, I'd be going Eldorado. The 00+ Deville is ugly in my book...too bloated and rounded and the 00+ Seville (which dates back to '98) never did anything for me. They lost the sharp, european lines the gorgeous 92-97's had..they kinda remind me of Nissans or Toyotas.

Cadillacboy, yes I've considered the FWB, and as a matter of fact, I still am. I've owned a Roadmaster, so I know what those B and D bodies are like, but I'll have to drive another to see if I like 'em or not. I've discussed those with my dad and he didn't say no to them, but they're not his top choice, nor are they mine right now...too big and too simple...Cadillacs should have more gadgets than those do, also, I wish they had more in the way of instrumentation...I'm sick of cars that only have a fuel guage and speedo, I want a tach, a speedo, temp guage and fuel guage, atleast.

I talked to one of gurus on this instrument panel issue.He told me that average age of the owners of those cars were above 50 and + .So, they wouldn't need such gadgets unlike us like tachymeter that's why Cadillac made it so basic and readable as much as possible.What would you expect from retired people lol .
Anyway, what makes me more sick is those cars seem underpowered and by no means I wouldn't accept that even though I know those earlier FBWs weren't meant to be so fast but at least they should compete a Jag Series III. My most fave instrument cluster is what 90-97 Jaguars have .
I also considered and been on the fence on what model to buy next a '00 STS or '95 FWB .It was a very tough decision and still is for anyone imho.
Those cars damn too long and owing to maneuverability issue STS seems sharper on the turns .

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Originally Posted by Cadillacboy

I talked to one of gurus on this instrument panel issue.He told me that average age of the owners of those cars were above 50 and + .So, they wouldn't need such gadgets unlike us like tachymeter that's why Cadillac made it so basic and readable as much as possible.What would you expect from retired people lol .

That's exactly why they never put them in, but it just bugs me so much. The only feasible way to get all the guages I like would be to do an aftermarket guage pod on the a-pillar, and that's kinda ricey.

Originally Posted by TripleblackETC

I say if you can afford it, buy it. Things never go as planned with cars anyways. If you buy a new car, your making payments on it. If you buy a used car, you do maintenance and repairs on it. You're going to have to dump money into any car you have one way or another, why not put it into something you really want.

I'm on my first Northstar and I love it. I'm only 3 years older than you, work on the weekends while going to school and have no problem keeping up on repairs and maintanence.

I say go for what you originally wanted.

True, I can expect to repair and maintain any used car I'd buy, but any L67 car has less stuff to go wrong and is generally simpler. Plus, like I've stated before, I do not have the world's biggest budget and I should live within my means. I could theoretically afford to fix anything that went bad on a Northstar car (except maybe the headgaskets), but worst case scenario, I'd never have any money saved up for anything else.

I've talked to people, and read reviews online of people spending anywhere from $3000-$7000 to fix and maintain their Northstar Cadillacs. One lady brought in her '94 SLS with 177k miles for an oil change or something, I told her how much I liked those cars and she said it was a POS and she spent over four grand in the last year to keep it going and would like nothing more than to see it gone! There was another person who bought a Jaguar X-Type and we were talking, and he said he had a '96 STS...spent $7,000 to keep that driveable. Now those are worst case scenarios, and probably a VERY small percentage of Northstar owners, but that's what I'm thinking about....what's this gonna cost me if everything goes wrong.

Originally Posted by davesdeville

I got a N* car at 17 years old, they're not that expensive to maintain/repair if you can DIY, hell I wrecked mine, transferred the steering box, trans, and engine seperately onto a new subframe and replaced the oil pan as well for a total cost of around $220. But if I had to have a shop do it the bill would've been well into the 5 digit range. If you can't work on it yourself go L67 or Mark VIII.

I can't DIY though, mechanically, I'm no good and a Northstar is not a good "starter" engine to learn DIY work on. It would be like having an apprentice architect right out of school to design the world's tallest building.

[Night Wolf]

a tach and temp gauge really isn't a big deal.... surely not one that I woudl let me decide what kind of car I would get, or to sell one.

Especially on an automatic, non-race daily driver car... a tach is cool to look at, but not very useful other then diagnosing some problems, in which case the on board tach on my Coupe was always handy.

Most of all.. these can be added... and are better then factory when they are. I added a small tach to my '79 DeVille... when the car got wrecked, I took my tach and it is now on my Isuzu (base model... no tach) and it is a whole lot more handy with a 5spd... even though I drove it fine with no tach when I first got it.

The temp gauge is handy too.... I guess I used to wish my Coupe had one too... I was going to mount a triple gauge cluster (oil press, volts, and temp) under the dash... make it all cool... that was going to be my next big project... car got stolen before that. But really, a temp gauge is... well... just that... I stare at the one on the Isuzu everyday.... in the morning it is on the bottom below C, I drive around it goes about 1/3 the way up and stays there, I stop for a few hours, it goes back to C, I drive, it goes back up around 1/3 the way etc.... Great to see for an overheat... but then again the cars have the light too.... although I like the temp gauge.

For volts... my radar detector (Escort Passport 8500 X50) has a system voltage feature.... really neat, it'll display the cars electrical system voltage on the display all the time... I've used that to diagnose plenty of problems on both the Coupe and the Isusu. Oil pressure is redundent... either its pumping oil or its not.... and again, for that there is a light... the light comes on, pull over and check it out.

Only idiot light I ever had come on was the no charge light on the Coupe... when my power cable for my amp broke the tie down and rubbed against the power steering pump shorting everything out... nothing was damaged though, just replaced a section of the wire and rerouted it.

Even the tach on the Coupe... which I did want, I was going to hook up in the car really neat.

A-pillar gauges are not ricey.... a huge 7" tach screwed the the top of the dashboard when there is a tach in the dash already on an otherwise near stock Accord is ricey, but a nice 3-pod A-pillar gauge set is not.... I was going to rig up something for the Coupe, and even on the Isuzu.... well, there are other places I can put gauges... but the A-pillar would be a great spot too.

[Night Wolf]

and... whats wrong with learning to work on a Northstar? spark plugs are spark plugs etc... sure the starter is in a different location... but... its a starter... not like they are repalced every week anyway.... plus they rarely fail on Northstars.

The 4.9 is a perfect engine to learn to work on.... though it can be tight due to the engine compartment, it is still very good to learn with....

modern engines really don't require much "work"... I know... I get bored fast... though I am kinda lucky... the Isuzu has no hydraulic lifters... so the valves get to be adjusted .

Anyway, the only "work" that a Northstar needs is regular oil changes (no different then any car) regular coolant changes (no different then any other car) spark plugs/wires (I would do every 50k or so and..... no different then any other car) air filter and fuel filter (both of which are..... the same as any car) and thats it! no distrubutor or carburator to worry about nor is there a timing belt or a timing system that even wears much at all... I mean, really thats it... 3 important systems... fuel delivery, ignition and timing... are nearly eliminated from any maintenace at all on this enigne. This engine was made to be low maintenace and thats what it is.

Cadillac says the green coolant needs to be replaced every 2yrs or 24k miles...

I just got a brand new owners manual for my Isuzu in the mail today... which thumbing thru it.... at the maintenace part... Isuzu reccomends that the coolant in the 2.6 I4 to be replaced every 3yrs or 36k miles.... and really, all the manufacters said the same... its just.. .people would neglect the coolant change (as with alot of other stuff on the car) and the Northstar is more tempermental to it then other engines.

But here we have a top of the line luxury car, and on the other side... a down to basics truck... both with very similar service scheduals(?.... I'm tired) Except the Northstar dosn't have an AIR pump, a distrubutor, valves that need to be adjusted (according to Isuzu every 15k) a timing belt that needs to be rpleaced every ~80k etc.... none of this stuff bothers me anyway..... I actually think its.... fun.

And if it makes anyone feel any better.... Cadillacs aren't the only brand tempermental to overheats.... My Isuzu 2.6 dosn't like overheats either... the head is known to warp and crack if it gets too hot. So you know what is funny? Here on the Caddy site when somone asks about a Northstar (or 4.9) everyone says "make sure the cooling system was maintained" and.... get this.... on the Isuzu site, when someone asks about a Rodeo or Tropper with the 2.6.... everyone says "make sure the cooling system has been maintained" For me, I don't need to worry about that, I have a brand new water pump at the time of timing belt change (since it was staring right at me) new radiator hoses, thermostat and fresh coolant.... and a temp gauge to keep an eye on it all .

A car is a car, all engines operate the same way. If you compare a Cadillac 500 to the Northstar, the Northstar is a whole lot more complex... but somehow in the mix of things, it became a whole lot more simple in its own right.

On top of that the car will tell you if its low on oil, time to change the oil, low on tranny fluid, time to change the tranny fluid, low on coolant, coolant hotter then normal etc....

I am back to looking at 1995 Eldorado ETC as my next car (keeping the Isuzu tho) and I once again am looking forward to owning a Northstar.

The Northstar would not be the primary enigne powering Cadillacs for over 15 years if it wasn't any good.... how long service life did the HT4100 have, or the V8-6-4 (although I disagree with the common reasons why that engine was bad)

Ah well, I'll get off my soap box now.... I am just looking at this ~1995 Seville STS and Eldorado ETC.... and what you can get for $5,000 is truely amazing.... step up to $8,000 and you are in a ~2000 Seville STS.... practically a brand new car.... its pretty pathetic the way the value drops thru the floor... but awesome for buying a car.

I think buying a 10-12 year old car is awesome... get it so cheap, and all the normal wear items (brakes, suspension etc...) are worn, which ticks the current owners off... but when I get a car, I'd rather put new shocks/struts in it and new brakes.... and have peace of mind it was done correctly, using quality parts, with stuff that is all new.... then buy a car that is 6 years old with factory stuff that is just going to wear out in a couple years.

If I bought a 1995 Northstar Cadillac for $5,000, I would have $1,000 set aside for repairs... simple as that.

I used the same logic on my Isuzu... and I now have a 13 year old truck with 126k miles on it that runs, drives, and performs like new, that will give me years and years of trouble-free service all for about the same cost it would be to insure a new truck for 1 year ($1,800 for truck plus maybe.... $800 in various stuff? $2,600 is a darn good price for what I've got)

Thats the same way I worked with on the Coupe.... although on top of that I had the mentality that I was never going to ever get rid of the car... so it was a bit more.

When I worked at Advance Auto, I had alot of free time some days, and I would sit there looking up prices of parts for all types of used cars..... Here is what I have come up with:

Imports are quite a bit more to repair then domestics... atleast Mitsu/Honda/Toyota/VW/Volvo etc... (Isuzu isn't too bad at all actually... atleast the 2.6) Ontop of that... out of GM.... the difference for a given part between a Northstar to a 3800 to an Ecotec is very, very slim... witht he 3800 leading the pack in most cases (due to larger demand) but thigns like water pumps? all around $40-$70.... $30 difference in a water pump isn't anything near choosing what type of car to get... batteries.... they all use the same types of battieres.... shocks.... all the same, even Caddys and Buicks with air leveling struts... very similar (around $50 each for the nice ones.... if a complex strut, up to $80 each) brake pads are all the same ($40/set for nice ones) rotors will get ya.... $20-$50 depending on car... starters are $100-$250..... alternators are the same.... spark plugs and wires are all the same unless its those Ford modular things, then its like $20 each (there are 8) but $30 for a set of wires is common... air filters... $10... fuel filters.. $5 etc....

It's all the same... the biggest in a cost *difference* would be around $150, and thats comparing an alternator from a 1983 Chevy van (like $60) to a late model luxury car etc.... check it out for yourself... go to advanceautoparts.com and compare prices... it really isn't all that different.

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Well I talked to my dad about this earlier today, and his responce wasn't as bad as I'd imagined.

I posted the hypothetical question to him about having $9,000 saved up for the next car, and told him about finding some nice, low mile (under 100k) Rivieras and Park Avenues for $8500-$9000...and hypothetically finding a nice, well maintained, low mile (again, under 100k) Northstar Eldorado or STS for $6500-$7000. I asked him "well because the Northstar Cadillac is cheaper to start, wouldn't that make it the smarter buy, because you're saving $1500-$2000 right off the bat? He said something along the lines of "yeah, I suppose but it's more expensive to maintain the Northstar." Then I said "yeah, but I could do a lot of possible repairs and maintance with the $1500 or $2000 I initially saved" then he said "yeah, but you won't keep that money, you'll spend it". I can't feasibly see my self spending money out of my savings account, especially not that much. I mean, sure, maybe if I wanted to do something aftermarket to the car, but there's nothing available for the Northstars, so I'd just keep the money in savings, keep adding money into it, for the next major purchase I'd buy, whether that be a Laptop or an apartment or what.

He never said no to the Northstars, but he actually said and I know this is funny, "Wouldn't you rather have the Buick?" We both know how good of a track record the 3800 has, but he seems to think that the Northstar doesn't have a good track record...maybe not the early ones so much, but they wouldn't have kept making the Northstar for 14 years if it wasn't any good. I know the Northstar (especially the post 2000 model) is a great engine, and I've been told that by some mechanics I've spoken to, but the thing that'll kill that engine is how it was maintained by the previous owner. If it was maintained well, like stated in the manual, it'll be a great engine. If it wasn't, I'm gonna have problems...expensive problems and I will avoid any without extensive maintainance records.

I think it's possible to sell him on these, tough, but possible. When I get the necessary money for the next car, I'll bring him on my test drives...I'll look at a Riv and an Ultra, but also I'll look at a STS or Eldorado in good condition, show him what the Northstar is really about and maybe that might help him see the appeal to me. Thanks to this site, I know what to watch for on a test drive to make sure the Northstar is in proper running condition.

[Jesda]

For an affordable hobby that you can drive to work and school, I suggest anything powered by an LT1.

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

Yes, those are good too, but I'm not sure if I want anything that large and plain, technically speaking.

[gdwriter]

Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792

One lady brought in her '94 SLS with 177k miles for an oil change or something, I told her how much I liked those cars and she said it was a POS and she spent over four grand in the last year to keep it going and would like nothing more than to see it gone!

Sheesh, the car has 177,000 miles on it and it's 13 years old! Of course it's going to need some repairs. If it were a total POS, it wouldn't have lasted that long.

[blunted]

Buy whatever you want buy definetly keep a couple grand set aside.. ESPECIALLY, If you dont have a lift/garage and need to go to the mechanic.
The labor is what they kill you with on the Northstar, the engine compartment is tight so getting to stuff isn't always easy. Even the battery is a bitch to take out if it doesn't have a handle mounted on it.

So here's my first car story.. I bought my 94 Eldorado 2 1/2 years ago for $4700 with 59K on her... She now has cost me over $14K (over course that includes cosmetic stuff) Great deal I figured, got it checked by 3 mechanics and everything was fine except rusted exhaust & waterpump which made me feel "safe" about spending the cash I had left on wheels,tires,stereo.
So everything was ok for a couple months, then all this happened (*note* I baby this car and never skimp) :
- Entire suspension started going out.. had to replace everything (struts,mounts,linkss,bushings, ball joints)
-Stupid stuff started breaking.. Oil filter adapter, oil switch,sensor
- A&B Solenoids went on the tranny
- Very bad half-case leak.. makes alot of smoke
- Coils/Plugs blowing
- Radiator Went
- Engine/Tranny Mounts have gone bad
- My brake lines now need replacing
-Car squeaks unexplainably
-Panels warping

Overall if you like things to be perfect.. a 10+ yr old car isn't the smartest move. My friend who is a pilot laughs and says this Eldorado gets treated like a plane.. couple years the only original thing on it will be the frame and (please God) the drive-train. I'm not saying this will happen to you but there's always a chance. Either way.. always put money aside for repairs, if you dont end up using it, you'll just be that much richer.

[bcs296]

With $7-9k, you should DEFINITELY be able to get one with less than 100k. With that much cash, I would be looking at 96 and 97's. Have it checked out for any signs that the head gasket is in less than great condition and see if the coolant looks reasonably fresh. Otherwise, I wouldn't be too nervous about them.

The head gasket is really the only thing short of the transmission blowing up that would cause problems for a 20 year old on a budget.

Suspension components are going to go on any car and could last until 100k.
If you could find an STS (much more car than SLS) for $6-7k, the extra cash will be WAY more than enough to cover a new [passive] suspension.


A&B solenoids are NOT an expensive repair. Ignition components you will prob want to replace upon purchase anyway, just as part of a tune up.