Havoline?

[clarkz71]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

here's some other info on the OLM:
On a the pre-2000 Northstars which are dino oil based you will never have it tell you to go over 7500 miles, and themanual says don't go over 6 months. Post 2000 engines are factory filled with mobil 1

The 2003 XLR was the 1st to have Mobil 1 as factory fill, also the VVT & supercharged engines.



Do I have to use special oil?
The GM Oil Life System calibrates the vehicle's needs based on use of the standard factory-fill mineral-based automotive engine oil that displays the "Starburst" API® Certification Mark. Make sure to read the vehicle's Owner's Manual to select oil with the viscosity and grade that are correct for your engine. Synthetic oils are not required except for the models that came with synthetic oil from the factory.

[GreenMachine]

I stand corrected, I could have sworn that the oil fill caps on the psto 2000 caddys I've seen say mobil 1 on them....in any event that means you could run dino oil the length of the OLM and be ok and still not need synthetic Then again it would seem the only engine at caddy which isn't VVT is the engine in the Esclade and the Deville. I think the Esclades corvette derived engine is Mobil filled, don't know.

[C66 Racing]

Originally Posted by MonzaRacer

NOW to lay down a little more proper information on Synthetic oils:
According to Lee," a popular misconception is that synthetic oil is magicly created in a beaker. The truth is, all oil comes in a natural state, and all oil starts as crude.
The difference between them is just a matter of how that crude is processed. synthetic oil is highly refined crude with molecules that have been realigned by man (ie a designer lubricant so to speak). this makes them significantly different from what came from the ground.

That is a very misleading statement. His statement refers to Group III basestock, which can be legally called synthetic. Group III basestock consists of highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil as he mentioned. Royal Purple may consist of a Group III synthetic - their website is not clear on what basestock they use. However, the original synthetics, Group IV, PAO basestock, and Group V, ester basestock, are not made the same way. AMSOIL uses a predominantly Group IV basestock, but recent formulations look like they have a higher level of ester additives to counteract the more stringent API SM/ILSAC GF-4 standards. Redline uses a Group V basestock. The vast majority of "synthetics" on the shelf at your local autoparts store use Group III basestock.

Here is a more detailed description of how Group IV and V basestocks are made:

Group IV:
Polymerized alpha olefin: Polyalphaolefin, Olefin Polymers, Olefin Oligomers- a synthetic hydrocarbon

PAOs are commonly used to designate olefin oligomers and olefin polymers. The term PAO was first used by Gulf Oil Company (later acquired by Chevron), but it has now become an accepted generic term for hydrocarbons manufactured by the catalytic oligomerization of linear alpha olefins having six or more carbon atoms. PAOs are gaining rapid acceptance as high-performance lubricants and functional fluids because they exhibit certain inherent and highly desirable characteristics.

Group V:
Esters: Diesters (dibasic acid esters)

Diesters are prepared by reacting a dibasic acid with an alcohol containing one reactive hydroxyl group. Note that the hydrolytic stability of diesters is not as good as mineral oils. Hydrolytic stability refers to how the lubricant reacts in the presence of water. Hydrolytic degradation can lead to acidic products, which, in turn, promote corrosion. Plus, hydrolysis can also materially change the chemical properties of the base fluid, making it unsuitable for the intended use. Systems that can contract high levels of moisture include systems that operate at low temperatures or that cycle between high and low temperatures and also certain fuels such as racing engines running alcohol, which has a cooling effect in the engine. Racing engines using ester based lubricants should have the lubricant changed regularly.

Diesters have good lubricating properties, good thermal and shear stability, high viscosity indexes and have exceptional solvency and detergency. Diesters are superior fluids for aircraft engines and compressors, although mainly older jet aircraft. Diesters are also used as a base oil or part of a base oil for automotive engine oils and in some low temperature greases (note: modern military and commercial jet aircraft almost universally use lubricants formulated with polyol esters as the base fluid now).

Diesters are incompatible with some sealing materials and can cause more seal swelling than mineral oils. The scientific reason for this is as follows: diesters have a low molecular weight that results in low viscosities. This combined with their high polarities makes them quite aggressive to elastomeric seals. This can be reduced by using better elastomers or by carefully blending with PAOs to nullify their swelling effects, since PAO base stocks are nonpolar.

Esters: Polyolesters (Neopentyl Poly Esters)

Polyol esters are formed by reacting an alcohol with two or more reactive hydroxyl groups. These fluids are used primarily for aircraft engines, high temperature gas turbines, hydraulic fluids and heat exchange fluids. Polyol esters are much more expensive than diesters. Lubricating greases with polyol esters as the base fluid are particularly suited to high temperature applications. Polyol esters have the same advantages/disadvantages as diesters. They are, however, much more stable and tend to be used instead of diesters where temperature stability is important. In general, a polyol ester is thought to be 40-50 deg. C. more thermally stable than a diester of the same viscosity. Esters give much lower coefficients of friction than those of PAO and mineral oil. By adding 5-10% of an ester to a PAO or mineral oil the oils coefficient of friction can be reduced markedly.

[MonzaRacer]

Ok after postingthis I got an email from a buddy who was talking different types of synthetics too but he made a very good point,,,they all have some/most or all of thier componenets drived from Crude or produced byproducts of crude ,with some other components added.
As for Amsoil after seeing a few engines that had that in it Ill run dish water.
I have seen cleaner engines in junkyards.
If user was doing something other than what Amsoil recommends then so be it but I havent yet seen any reason to spend that kind of money(if the prices I was quoted were true) Besides I can get my Kendal for a LOT less and it so far has performed superbly in all my personal and professional tests.
I also like Mobil 1. and I have also looked at trying some of the Shell synthetic too as I have some customers asking if it can be used instead of the striaght Rotella T.
Anyway like I said before, find one you like for what ever reason , change it regularly and enjoy the ride.
OH and as for the OLM ya ought to read the programing , it has nothing in it for reading mileage unless its getting a factor from another module but there is nothing in the programing (we looked at this as a friend is trying to reverse engineeer an OLM for a show/drag car ).
kindof funny GM is still using the OLM program from the early 80s OLM's, and they ,from what we saw in the program, it goes by temp,rpm,hours,load(map), and no miles input, but Ill have to ask which year the unit was from but I know it was from a Caddy.
Lee

[JohnnyO]

If I recall correctly, a big part of the OLM algorithm is the amount of fuel burned. Therefore, someone who does a lot highway driving that is easy on oil and uses less gas per mile will show a longer OCI than a lot of in-town driving that is harder on oil and uses more gas per mile.
I'm at work and don't have an owner's manual in front of me, but I think that regardless of the miles driven it says to change the oil at least once a year even if the OLM doesn't light up.
Another thing to remember is that a N* holds 50% more oil than most other engines, so even on dino oil you can go longer than you're used to.
I've said before that we ran Mobil 1 in my dad's car for over 12,000 miles, OLM was at about 5% I think, I sent a sample to Blackstone and the UOA was fine.

[STS127]

What company came up with the OLM? When where they first started to be used. Just curious to see if these were some of the first or if they have been around and these ones aren't bad like a lot of new technologies in cars.

[MUGSANDLUKE]

And the saga continues. I'm right! You guys are headed for a 12 page thread. Keep going guys! You can do it!

[EcSTSatic]

With your help! What's wrong with discussing the OLM? Should we talk about the weather?

[STS127]

^^ Yeah its about 15 degrees here in Massachusetts today.

[clarkz71]

Originally Posted by MUGSANDLUKE

And the saga continues. I'm right! You guys are headed for a 12 page thread. Keep going guys! You can do it!

Just for you MUGS. 12 it is,

[STS127]

Lets try 14.

[GreenMachine]

I only see 3 with my post settings...anyway

the OLM is NOT the same program in every vehicle, and it has been changed since the 80's. That website I linked to shows it all in black and white what it is. The setting for it are changed for each engine, from what I gather the guru went into detail for the validation process for it. Being that its been adjusted and developeed since the 80's I would trust it more than something that was designed yesterday :P

Its pretty good and considering our brethren across the pond have been changing oil far past 3000 miles for years and year I doubt we have anything to worry about.

[clarkz71]

Did we ever decide what the best oil filter was ??

[STS127]

I don't think so. I've heard Wix, AC Delco mentioned but there are others. Purolator, STP, Bosch, Motorcraft, Pro-Tech, Super Tech, Mobil One, K&N, Mopar, Fram, Valvoline Max Life by Purolator, Pennzoil. Are there any others I'm forgetting. What is the best? Oh yeah I think Amsoil makes them too.

[Flynn]

I would guess the cost of the filter is indicative of its quality. The real question is probably what level of protection do you really need? I believe we-who-toss-the-old-filter at every 3000-mile oil change can get by just using the cheapos.
I'm sure someone will point out that I'm wrong.

I look forward to you experts among us sharing your opinions.