4T80E heartbreak with pictures

scorpio · #1 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 11:58 PM

My 94 Concours was throwing PO29 and PO94 at me. I read up on the Solenoid problem and decided to get the kit and replace both solenoids.

After droping the pan and draining the ATF I discovered something. Dont ask me what I discovered cuz i dunno fer sure. About the only thing i could make of it was its gunna cost alot to fix. In a small pile there were bits and pieces of something plastic that looked important. Along with these bits n pieces was a check ball. One friend suggested it was part of a clutch band but was not absolutly sure. Sooooooo, here is a snapshot of the pieces.

Can anyone tell me what it is, or should I say, what it used to be.

eldorado1 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 12:04 AM

You found this in the bottom pan and not the side cover?

**Ranger** · #3 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 03:41 AM

I don't know what it is, but it can;t be good. I'm surprised it still ran.

scorpio · #4 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 10:19 AM

This was found in the pan. I did not remove the side cover. Also, I probably should mention that "Double A (beep beep) MCO" looked at the trans several months ago. What AAMCO opened when they looked, I have no idea, is it possible the debris was originaly behind the side cover and they fished this out then simply left it in the pan?

zonie77 · #5 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 03:25 PM

Was the car driveable? How was the trans acting?

The check ball and possibly some of the plastic was solenoid parts. The curved pieces? Possibly a cable/wire guide.

It wouldn't get from the side to the bottom. It is a lot of work to get the side cover off so I doubt they did that.

Dadillac · #6 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonie77

Was the car driveable? How was the trans acting?

The check ball and possibly some of the plastic was solenoid parts. The curved pieces? Possibly a cable/wire guide.

It wouldn't get from the side to the bottom. It is a lot of work to get the side cover off so I doubt they did that.

That is what I am thinking. The wiring harness is run through some plastic that looks just like that. Look at yours, and see if the plastic is broke. Here is a pic.

Don

danbuc · #7 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 05:42 PM

One of those pieces ( the one that looks like it's about an inch wide towards the top facing sideways) looks liek it has two indentations that would line up with the alignment teeth in a clutch pack. Have you felt the material at all to see if it feel smooth like plastic, or rough liek 600 grit sandpaper. If it's a little rough, then it could be clutch material, if not, then it's likely plastic. If it was a clutch disc, it's not burnt, which would lead me to suspect a broken piece of plastic.

scorpio · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-06, 04:21 AM

I've been driving the car in 2nd gear three to five days a week for about a year. Only 5 to 10 mile trips around town rarely exceding 45 mph.

The trans makes a noise when the spedo hits 4 mph (in drive or reverse), sounds like a soft spongey crunch, like two plastic gears not meshing, possibly stripped. When the spedo gets to 40, there is a slight hesitation then the check engine light comes on.

After cleaning the debris from the pan, I just bolted it back on and refilled the trans. The car operates just as it did before I dropped the pan

The broken pieces are smooth hard plastic like. One thing that seems odd is the plastic looks worn smooth in some areas and jagged in other places. This may indicate the part was wearing down then just snapped. The trans fluid had only a slight odor, it did not have an acrid burnt smell.

The solenoids appeared to be in good condition, they were firmly seated in the valve body. Nothing was dangeling.

zonie77 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-06, 10:39 AM

I would have thought some of the debris was solenoid....hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

If you want to do something (before changing the trans) try replacing the solenoids and cleaning the valve body (or replacing it). There might be debris keeping them from working.

apollo · #10 (**permalink**) 03-02-06, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpio

My 94 Concours was throwing PO29 and PO94 at me. I read up on the Solenoid problem and decided to get the kit and replace both solenoids.

After droping the pan and draining the ATF I discovered something. Dont ask me what I discovered cuz i dunno fer sure. About the only thing i could make of it was its gunna cost alot to fix. In a small pile there were bits and pieces of something plastic that looked important. Along with these bits n pieces was a check ball. One friend suggested it was part of a clutch band but was not absolutly sure. Sooooooo, here is a snapshot of the pieces.

Can anyone tell me what it is, or should I say, what it used to be.

If that is a ball bearing or round metal ball that is found in the valve body.
has the valve body ever been off??

scorpio · #11 (**permalink**) 03-02-06, 11:18 PM

Excelent question, the answer is maybe.

I did not pull the valve body. When I saw the debris in the pan the relatively simple job seemed like it was not so simple anymore.

When I saw the pieces, I just cleaned the pan, bolted it back on and topped off the ATF. I was expecting to find a semi injured or mangled solenoid. The solenoids looked pretty good from the outside and were firmly seated in the valve body. I've read in other posts that the failed solenoid is typicaly dangeling or in some way visibly damaged. Would a bad solenoid be visibly damaged where it protrudes from outside the valve body or does the case have to be cracked open to see any damage?

The one thing that bothers me is how does a check ball work its way out of a securely bolted encasing like a valve body. Where did that ball come from? I'm no expert but It just didn't add up. One person suggested it came from a solenoid, but both A & B looked ok from the outside of the valve body. the integrety of both were good, if one or both were mangled I could venture a guess that the ball came from a solenoid. All I could do was scratch the top of my thinning scalp and wonder.

Since I never removed the valve body much less drained the side case I got to thinking maybe the last "professional" at aamco or some other place that looked at or repaired the trans dropped a ball and instead of finding it just grabed another one from the "spare parts" tray.

As far as the plastic bits go, I'm going to check out the wiring conduit first. A few posts up shows a couple pictures with a plastic part that is very similar in color and texture but cant be sure it's a match untill I look at it again. The ball and the plastic may have nothing in common. I will attempt to reconstruct the plastic bits in a day or two and then take new pix.

parts68 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-03-06, 12:26 AM

Took the pan off 95 rora and it has a similar(tho only 2 small pieces) beige plastic.
Mine setting code 94 so I took pan and pieces with valve body and solenoids to a friend thats a tranny expert.
He said its a thrust washer,deep inside tranny $.50 part with $2K labor

zonie77 · #13 (**permalink**) 03-03-06, 01:12 AM

The ball could be from a solenoid but you say they are good. Possibly AMMCO replaced one of the solenoids? It's a couple hour job so they should have charged you.

You're still back to replacing the solenoids to see of that fixes it or rebuilding/replacing trans.

scorpio · #14 (**permalink**) 03-04-06, 10:04 AM

AAMCO did not replace the solenoids. Supposedly all they did was drop the pan to diagnose the problem. The only thing they charged was some ATF, diagnostics were supposedly free.

parts68 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-05-06, 09:38 AM

scorpio,if you saved those pieces see if they can be assembled laying flat into a circle like a thrust washer would be.