Blown head gasket

garryday · #1 (**permalink**) 07-16-03, 09:33 PM

Just bought a '97 etc w/67000 miles. On way home it overheated and the dealer tells me it is a blown headgasket. The Cadillac dealer wanted to replace the engine but the selling dealer has sent it to an independent(non-Cadillac garage) for repair. What are the chances of this being repaired correctly and is there anything I should look for to indicate if its been done right? What would cause a northstar with only 67000 miles to blow a head gasket?

Allante North * · #2 (**permalink**) 07-16-03, 09:56 PM

Tough Break!

Improper Cooling System Maintenance

Got to change the coolant and add pellets every two years.

I hope this is not out of your pocket!

garryday · #3 (**permalink**) 07-16-03, 10:09 PM

Thanks
dealer gave me a 12/12000 drivetrain so its on him. Just worried that a non cadillac garage won't do it right. Only had the car 18 hours but its my dream car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allante North *

Tough Break!

Improper Cooling System Maintenance

Got to change the coolant and add pellets every two years.

I hope this is not out of your pocket!

MMNineInchNails · #4 (**permalink**) 07-16-03, 10:41 PM

Just because it's a noncadillac garage doesn't mean they don't know how to fix a blown head gasket. Everycar has a head gasket.

Katshot · #5 (**permalink**) 07-16-03, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMNineInchNails

Just because it's a noncadillac garage doesn't mean they don't know how to fix a blown head gasket. Everycar has a head gasket.

I agree. Just because it's NOT a Cadillac dealer doesn't mean anything.

elwesso · #6 (**permalink**) 07-17-03, 01:07 AM

You may ask to make sure that they have some experience with the northstar!

garryday · #7 (**permalink**) 07-17-03, 03:12 PM

Good point. I guess I was thinking that the Northstar was particularly sophisticated and may require specific expertese. The service Manager at my local Caddy dealership said the reason they prefer to replace the engine in these cases, is that the head bolts frequently break when removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katshot

I agree. Just because it's NOT a Cadillac dealer doesn't mean anything.

eehoepp · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-03, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garryday

Good point. I guess I was thinking that the Northstar was particularly sophisticated and may require specific expertese. The service Manager at my local Caddy dealership said the reason they prefer to replace the engine in these cases, is that the head bolts frequently break when removed.

Welcome aboard!

The head bolts don't break - the threads pull out in the head bolt holes in the (aluminum) block. Do a search of the forums using Time-Sert, overheating or headgasket & you'll find numerous threads. The Time-Sert is the ONLY way to properly repair/upgrade the holes. I would recommend insisting on a shop that has experience doing this repair. I'd be afraid that a non-Caddy mechanic might run into a problem and try to bubble-gum the repair. You don't need to have the inconvenience and possible expense of doing the headgaskets again just after your warrantee runs out.

In my opinion, the dealers prefer to replace the engine because it's a very time-consuming repair (book rate is 19 hours labor for both heads) and the risk of extra expense due to pulled threads is fairly high. Swapping in a new engine is a much more predictable repair.

My STS was/is my dream car and started showing symptoms 2 days after I bought. Mine was a private sale so I was SOL. After having fixed mine myself (including the Time-Serts on all headbolt holes), I think I'd rather have a PROPERLY repaired block than a new engine. Despite the headgasket repair, I still think this car is just the greatest thing.

I'm not trying to scare you. I just think it's good for you to be forewarned/forearmed. Can you contact the shop that is actually doing the wrenching and have them keep you posted? I think if you can show the selling dealer that you know what should be done, you will be in a good position to make them do it. If they try to take any shortcuts or snow you, tell them to give you your money back and keep the car.

Good luck with everything and keep us posted.

elwesso · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-03, 11:45 PM

Listen to this guy, he KNOWS what hes talking about!!! Look at his thread, he's no dummy (like me) when it comes to the northstar!

If you do decide to go the dealer route, tell them to REPAIR it or leave...... A new engine wouldnt be worth it..... A new engine would cost a ton, and a take out would need so much R/R to get it back into useful shape that you could have the head bolts fixed already.......

Make sure that if anything else needs to be done that you get it done while the engine is out.... Things can take 1/2 the time (esp on a transverse engine) when the engine is out!!

MMNineInchNails · #10 (**permalink**) 07-19-03, 02:14 AM

I can't wait to become an automotive technition. AHH book hours. good ol' makin people pay for 5 hours when you can do it in 1.

eehoepp · #11 (**permalink**) 07-21-03, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMNineInchNails

I can't wait to become an automotive technition. AHH book hours. good ol' makin people pay for 5 hours when you can do it in 1.

Or just be a DIYer and take over two months of evenings and weekends for a "19 hour" repair :banghead2

garryday · #12 (**permalink**) 07-21-03, 11:14 PM

I want to thank all you guys that have taken the time to advise me. I find this forum immensely helpful. I can now speak knowledgably about "time-sert" and my plan is to let the dealer do his thing(comming up on three weeks now) and take it directly to a certified cadddy mechanic and have a pressure test done on the engine. Anything else anyone can suggest to be sure that the engine is repaired correctly would be appresiated. Thanks again guys. Ill keep you posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eehoepp

Or just be a DIYer and take over two months of evenings and weekends for a "19 hour" repair :banghead2

elwesso · #13 (**permalink**) 07-22-03, 12:29 AM

Yes, keep us posted...... Hopefully the head gasket isnt the problem........ it could possibly be something else, but dont get your hopes up!!!

garryday · #14 (**permalink**) 07-23-03, 09:35 PM

OK
I went and found the garage that has the car and they were planning on putting a salvage engine in the car. I nearly flipped. I went to the selling dealer( the one providing the warranty) and said I want a Caddilac certified garage doing the repairs which ultimately means a new engine( since that's how the caddy dealer wanted to handle it in the first place) If they want the Caddilac garage to replace the head gaskets(which I doubt since the SOP is to replace the engine) should I demand that they go through the engine? What else could be wrong if the head gasket blew AT 67000 miles? You guys have proved to be tremendously valuable with your advice and I sincerely appreciate it.
Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwesso

Yes, keep us posted...... Hopefully the head gasket isnt the problem........ it could possibly be something else, but dont get your hopes up!!!

elwesso · #15 (**permalink**) 07-24-03, 12:10 AM

Well, if the gasket blew at 67k miles (most fail closer to 100k), that possibly means that it may not have been maintained really good...... Maybe this new engine will give you a chance to maintain it perfectly.......

how much did they want for the engine replacement...... You may consider getting a take out engine, BUT, you MUST, MUST make sure that you have it r/r'd, or it will cause more problems later..... Doing stuff with the engine out can be take half the time, and jobs that are difficult and time-consuming can be a cakewalk when the engine is out.......