Blown head gasket

[Brian Bray]

Originally Posted by elwesso

Well, if the gasket blew at 67k miles (most fail closer to 100k), that possibly means that it may not have been maintained really good...... Maybe this new engine will give you a chance to maintain it perfectly.......

how much did they want for the engine replacement...... You may consider getting a take out engine, BUT, you MUST, MUST make sure that you have it r/r'd, or it will cause more problems later..... Doing stuff with the engine out can be take half the time, and jobs that are difficult and time-consuming can be a cakewalk when the engine is out.......

I know this may be your dream car but I would back away from this whole deal...get your money back and go to a different car. Do you want a car that was obviously not maintained? If the cooling system wasn't maintained properly, doesn't it stand to reason that none of the other systems were maintained properly also? These cars are high tech and wonderful; but everyone is beginning to learn that proper maintenance is absolutely paramount! This car is telling you that it wasn't maintained properly..you can get out now at no cost..don't be foolish..take the hint! The alternative can and will cost you $thousands.

If you stick with this car and even if you get the engine back the way you want it, what's next? You were lucky and this problem surfaced before the warranty expired; but what if the engine had been fine for the 12 months and 12,000 miles and then went bad and YOU had to pick up the repair cost? You KNOW the next repair will be on you; and the next and the next, etc. Nothing major on these cars is cheap! Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

Last time I looked, there were plenty of cars available for sale; don't get stuck with this turkey! Start looking again and be sure that there are complete maintenance records with the car you are looking at. No records, then walk away from the car, no matter what. A Model A is simple enough you can fix most anything in your garage, but repairs on a '97 etc requires expertise, the right tools and lots of hours at big bucks per hour (which YOU are going to pay for!).
Brian Bray

[elwesso]

Thats a great post, Brian........ And a good point...... BUT, if he does get the replacement (new) engine, then there is no reason why he cant maintain it and have many more happy miles.......

And since its under warranty, have him replace the engine!!!! Nothing else makes sense....... If he wants to replace it, replace it....... If the dealer is sending it to an independent shop, chances are they are reputible and have experience with the northstar.......

Putting in a new engine would be like starting fresh..... You can maintain it perfectly, and it will be a great car.........

The head gasket problems only (or usually) occurs on ill-maintained northstars...... There are pleanty of cars that have the OEM head gasket..... But i bet every one had the coolant changed every 2yrs/24k, or 5yrs/50k with dex-cool.......

Sorry for the contradicting posts, but I just reread your post.....

[2dfx]

Originally Posted by MMNineInchNails

I can't wait to become an automotive technition. AHH book hours. good ol' makin people pay for 5 hours when you can do it in 1.

Shut up you! You're the kind of mechanic I want seen in my local graveyard if you charge that!!!

[loisalynn]

C

Originally Posted by garryday

Just bought a '97 etc w/67000 miles. On way home it overheated and the dealer tells me it is a blown headgasket. The Cadillac dealer wanted to replace the engine but the selling dealer has sent it to an independent(non-Cadillac garage) for repair. What are the chances of this being repaired correctly and is there anything I should look for to indicate if its been done right? What would cause a northstar with only 67000 miles to blow a head gasket?

[color=navy]I am a one-owner of a 1997 ETC. Leased for 3 yrs, then purchased the car. I have loved the vehicle. However, after the warranty ran out, I've had nothing but problems with my car. I also owned a '94 ETC and had no problems whatsoever. I have spent at least $6K in repairs since 48,000 miles. Everything, from an oil leak to the coolant problems to the A/C not working. My car overheated at 71,000 miles. The dealer quoted me $12,000 to repair it. I've now been without a car for 2 weeks. I know of another person whose '97 did the same thing at 70,000 miles. So, it is a problem that Cadillac is becoming well aware of for the 1997's. My car has been perfectly maintained. I've had oil changes every 3,000 miles. I go to a full-service station once a week to fill my car, and they check everything out. This problem is not the result of a poorly maintained vehicle. This is a problem associated with the '97's. It needs to be repaired by a qualified garage. I don't think the non-Cadillac garage is a huge issue IF they have previously dealt with Northstars. If not, I'd run to the nearest dealer and call Cadillac to see if they will help pay for it. Just call a Caddy dealer and ask them for the Cadillac Customer Service #. I don't know if Cadillac will do anything for a person who bought from other than Cadillac, BUT....it's worth a try. They screwed up on the 1997 ETC's. By the way, I've loved my car too. It is a wonderful vehicle, but paying as much as I paid for my car ($53,000) to get only 71.000 miles is not acceptable to me. Let me know what happens, and I'll try to keep you informed about my situation also. Good Luck! Lois

[eehoepp]

Originally Posted by garryday

OK
I went and found the garage that has the car and they were planning on putting a salvage engine in the car. I nearly flipped. I went to the selling dealer( the one providing the warranty) and said I want a Caddilac certified garage doing the repairs which ultimately means a new engine( since that's how the caddy dealer wanted to handle it in the first place) If they want the Caddilac garage to replace the head gaskets(which I doubt since the SOP is to replace the engine) should I demand that they go through the engine? What else could be wrong if the head gasket blew AT 67000 miles? You guys have proved to be tremendously valuable with your advice and I sincerely appreciate it.
Thanks

You want this to be your dream car & not your worst nightmare. I think you should demand your money back and find another car. You bought a car in good faith and it crapped out before you got it home. Has the dealer arranged a suitable alternative vehicle for you to drive while they are "fixing" the engine? You have no idea of the history of the salvage engine, nor I presume its mileage. What happens if the salvage engine craps out in another month? The salvage yard probably gives a nominal guarantee, but that will only be for the engine and not the labour. Even worse, if it tanks in 13 months, you're SOL.

You should probably spend some time reading the fine print of your extended warrantee or contract of sale to see exactly where you stand. I think you'd have a strong case for a refund if you took it to court (but then nobody really wins). Some negative publicity - or the threat thereof - may force the dealer's hand.

Or the "repair" may be done and the car gives you many thousands of absolutely trouble-free miles and years of enjoyment. Are you willing to take that chance?

Gotta love the "dreams" you get when you polish off a big bowl of extra-spicy three bean chili just before bedtime...

[2dfx]

Originally Posted by eehoepp

Gotta love the "dreams" you get when you polish off a big bowl of extra-spicy three bean chili just before bedtime...

Yeah right! Wet dreams more like it, and a fresh change of underwear!

[garryday]

I do have the option of a refund (and hopefully my trade in back) if I choose. Right now the dealership is trying to locate a comperable eldorado. I'm on vacation so I'll just have to wait and see what he comes up with when i return.

Originally Posted by eehoepp

You want this to be your dream car & not your worst nightmare. I think you should demand your money back and find another car. You bought a car in good faith and it crapped out before you got it home. Has the dealer arranged a suitable alternative vehicle for you to drive while they are "fixing" the engine? You have no idea of the history of the salvage engine, nor I presume its mileage. What happens if the salvage engine craps out in another month? The salvage yard probably gives a nominal guarantee, but that will only be for the engine and not the labour. Even worse, if it tanks in 13 months, you're SOL.

You should probably spend some time reading the fine print of your extended warrantee or contract of sale to see exactly where you stand. I think you'd have a strong case for a refund if you took it to court (but then nobody really wins). Some negative publicity - or the threat thereof - may force the dealer's hand.

Or the "repair" may be done and the car gives you many thousands of absolutely trouble-free miles and years of enjoyment. Are you willing to take that chance?

Gotta love the "dreams" you get when you polish off a big bowl of extra-spicy three bean chili just before bedtime...

[garryday]

It's right down to it now and I could use some more advice. The dealer is looking for another car for me and he may have found a 2000 Eldorado with 52000 for 15900. The problem is that it doesn't have all the features of the original 97 but it seems like a great price for a 2000. The 97 has suposedly been repaired(time-sert) or helicoils as i've usually refered to them. What are the chances that the repaired engine will really be ok. I have a highly respected caddy mechanic(independant now) that tells me that he wouldn't touch the engine because when they overheat bad enough to blow the head gasket, there is more wrong. You guys really sound like you know your stuff so I was hoping I could impose on you for advice. T.hanks for your help

Originally Posted by elwesso

Thats a great post, Brian........ And a good point...... BUT, if he does get the replacement (new) engine, then there is no reason why he cant maintain it and have many more happy miles.......

And since its under warranty, have him replace the engine!!!! Nothing else makes sense....... If he wants to replace it, replace it....... If the dealer is sending it to an independent shop, chances are they are reputible and have experience with the northstar.......

Putting in a new engine would be like starting fresh..... You can maintain it perfectly, and it will be a great car.........

The head gasket problems only (or usually) occurs on ill-maintained northstars...... There are pleanty of cars that have the OEM head gasket..... But i bet every one had the coolant changed every 2yrs/24k, or 5yrs/50k with dex-cool.......

Sorry for the contradicting posts, but I just reread your post.....

[elwesso]

I think your independent guy is right, when they OVERHEAT they have other problems...... But the headgasket does not always fail because of overheating.... Mainly it fails due to pulled head bolts, which could possibly cause it to overheat...... Most of the time the bolts pull, the gasket fails, and then it overheats.....

If the engine has overheated and therefore caused the head gasket to fail, that says to me that the heads are warped, and the engine needs to be junked...... If you get it replaced, see if you can keep the old one and you could tinker with it.... You can really learn a lot......

[SoundAdvantage]

Originally Posted by loisalynn

C




[color=navy]I am a one-owner of a 1997 ETC. Leased for 3 yrs, then purchased the car. I have loved the vehicle. However, after the warranty ran out, I've had nothing but problems with my car. I also owned a '94 ETC and had no problems whatsoever. I have spent at least $6K in repairs since 48,000 miles. Everything, from an oil leak to the coolant problems to the A/C not working. My car overheated at 71,000 miles. The dealer quoted me $12,000 to repair it. I've now been without a car for 2 weeks. I know of another person whose '97 did the same thing at 70,000 miles. So, it is a problem that Cadillac is becoming well aware of for the 1997's. My car has been perfectly maintained. I've had oil changes every 3,000 miles. I go to a full-service station once a week to fill my car, and they check everything out. This problem is not the result of a poorly maintained vehicle. This is a problem associated with the '97's. It needs to be repaired by a qualified garage. I don't think the non-Cadillac garage is a huge issue IF they have previously dealt with Northstars. If not, I'd run to the nearest dealer and call Cadillac to see if they will help pay for it. Just call a Caddy dealer and ask them for the Cadillac Customer Service #. I don't know if Cadillac will do anything for a person who bought from other than Cadillac, BUT....it's worth a try. They screwed up on the 1997 ETC's. By the way, I've loved my car too. It is a wonderful vehicle, but paying as much as I paid for my car ($53,000) to get only 71.000 miles is not acceptable to me.

Sorry to hear about your Northstar Engine, When Aluminum gets hot it warps and changes it's configuration so once that happens you have big trouble and it takes alot of labor man hours to do repairs on aluminum engines and cylinder heads as well so "Dealers" usually opt for complete Replacement because it's much less time consuming when it come to Labor and machine work done to an engine. I personally feel that Cadillac need to "Recall certain year Northstar's" to keep their customers happy and in the market for another Cadillac someday.

[eldo]

Originally Posted by loisalynn

C




[color=navy]I am a one-owner of a 1997 ETC. Leased for 3 yrs, then purchased the car. I have loved the vehicle. However, after the warranty ran out, I've had nothing but problems with my car. I also owned a '94 ETC and had no problems whatsoever. I have spent at least $6K in repairs since 48,000 miles. Everything, from an oil leak to the coolant problems to the A/C not working. My car overheated at 71,000 miles. The dealer quoted me $12,000 to repair it. I've now been without a car for 2 weeks. I know of another person whose '97 did the same thing at 70,000 miles. So, it is a problem that Cadillac is becoming well aware of for the 1997's. My car has been perfectly maintained. I've had oil changes every 3,000 miles. I go to a full-service station once a week to fill my car, and they check everything out. This problem is not the result of a poorly maintained vehicle. This is a problem associated with the '97's. It needs to be repaired by a qualified garage. I don't think the non-Cadillac garage is a huge issue IF they have previously dealt with Northstars. If not, I'd run to the nearest dealer and call Cadillac to see if they will help pay for it. Just call a Caddy dealer and ask them for the Cadillac Customer Service #. I don't know if Cadillac will do anything for a person who bought from other than Cadillac, BUT....it's worth a try. They screwed up on the 1997 ETC's. By the way, I've loved my car too. It is a wonderful vehicle, but paying as much as I paid for my car ($53,000) to get only 71.000 miles is not acceptable to me. Let me know what happens, and I'll try to keep you informed about my situation also. Good Luck! Lois

Well I suppose you can add me to the long list of "97 ETC with
head gasket problems, just happened a couple of weeks ago. Since then
I have spent close to a thousand dollars because of the "Check Coolant
Level" light, only to be told that I have a possible blown head gasket.
Undecided on what to do next, new engine, rebuilt, used or have it repaired. I am able to still drive the car as if nothing at all is wrong with
it, only that I have to add coolant every three to five days when the
"Check Coolant Light" comes on. It's a very beautiful car, but sometimes
I wonder if it's all worth it.
You think maybe someone would be willing to buy it at a lowered price
the way it is now?
Eldo!

[elwesso]

Maybe you could get someone to buy it...... A dedicated DIYer with a northstar already in his possession.......

{thinking crazy thoughts :lightbulb: }

I think it would be a stupid move on your part, since I dont think anyone would pay more than 3000 for it.......

[Katshot]

It CONSTANTLY amazes me how there can STILL be anyone here DEFENDING the Northstar after you see how many people here have had major engine problems with them like this.

[Allante North *]

That's chocolate and Vanilla Kat. Take your pick. Aside from the tried and true V8 in many production GM vehicles, the Northstar is the only high performance V8 out there that has come along in recent history. It being aluminum is the source of the problem. It gets hot and sh*t happens. I love my Northstar, but it might crap out on me tomorrow. I hope not, but it could happen to me or it could happen to you in your car if not properly maintained. Most drivers do not do there own work and rely on someone else to do it. If something goes wrong, who you gonna point the finger at? I would bet most folks wouldn't point it at themselves, RIGHT.

I would defend the Northstar, but I know more about it than most folks out there because I chose to learn about it. I love the way she screams at WOT and redlines at near 7000 rpm's. If you were to tach your motor that high, we would see the pistons come through the hood and a puddle of 10W30 on the ground. You wouldn't do it because you know what you are doing, but most folks haven't got a clue. They take their car to Pep Boys or Jiffy Lube and think they are on top of things not knowing that the dingleberry working on there car dosen't give a rip or know about adding coolant pellets to the cooling system.

So bottem line is you take your Vette motor in your Caddy(Vanilla), and I'll take my Northstar(Chocolate) and we both drive away happy.

[ljklaiber]

I have 137K on my 95 sls. No oil probs and no HGasket probs. I run 93 Amoco and throttle the crap out ot it. I think you all should listen to Wesso and buy an infiniti. The French need the business.