NEW - 2002 Head Gasket Failure - Best Fix... - Page 2

JSTS02 · #16 (**permalink**) 09-10-09, 01:27 PM

Ok... So I found an out of work ASE certified tech (used to work for meineke) who is willing to do it for $600. I found a few people to do it at $600-$1000 cant really find an expert but i've found able techs (working from home) with some drilling experience willing to do it in the car by loosening the motor mounts and using a come-along to hold the engine in place to access rear headbolts...

potentially $1200 for a head gasket fix... yeah it does sound to good to be true... what should I look out for?

I mean whats the chances that an "able" tech could screw up norms jig & tap alignment and demolish a head bolt hole beyond repair???

What Northstar specific obstacles should i have the tech look out for??? Keep in mind he is using alldata.

I really appreciate you experts chiming in because im far out from any expert willing to do this... and i just cant fork out $2000+ to fix it today... and that coolant sitting in my oil cant be good for over a month now...

submariner409 · #17 (**permalink**) 09-10-09, 02:54 PM

The tech can probably do the job. The worst part for anybody, with the engine in the car, is rocking the engine assembly forward a bit to make the jig-drill job easier on the rear block surface. Not a picnic, by any stretch.

About obstacles and hints: Study here and Alldata and always measure twice, cut once !

JSTS02 · #18 (**permalink**) 09-10-09, 05:50 PM

well, i'll be finding out if a craigslist mechanic can do a northstar head gasket job shortly here... please guys let me know if there is anything else to watch out for going into this job... the heads are coming off today... so... i'm sure i may have questions...

**Ranger** · #19 (**permalink**) 09-10-09, 05:55 PM

Keep the chain tensioners retracted and DO NOT even think of using ScotchBrite or letting it in the same building as an open engine for that matter.

tateos · #20 (**permalink**) 09-10-09, 06:47 PM

I have to chime in and say that trying to do it in the car is way MORE work, harder worker, and I feel with a greater possibility of making a mistake during drilling. The only reasons I can think of to do that are is you do not have the space to drop the cradle, or an engine hoist...and I STILL don't think it's worth it! I started my HG project by trying to take the engine out of the top - the conventional way we have all done things in the olden days. I gave up 1/2 way through and dropped the cradle. All I can say is it's thing of beauty! Re-install was so easy! I know everyone is apprehensive to drop the cradle - it sounds scary, but it's NOT! Your whole body will thank you, it will be easier, it will be faster, you will be able to replace the oil pan and other lower end gaskets and seals, and you will get a better overall result.

I think I've read that Jake pulls the engine out the top, and I think he qualifies as an expert, but maybe he's got methods and reasons I don't understand or know about.

JSTS02 · #21 (**permalink**) 09-11-09, 01:56 PM

If anything... the tech would have to take the engine out from the top using a hoist... I didn't know it was possible... So far iv'e insisted on him doing it in the car... i guess i should at least explore it huh?

but isnt it more likely to set off all types of codes if you have to disconnect everything?

submariner409 · #22 (**permalink**) 09-11-09, 03:03 PM

You have to disconnect everything to get the heads off anyway, codes be damned. Lifting the car off the engine/transmission assembly, as Tateos opined, is the way to go. Out the top is very tricky.

Subscribe your car to www.alldatadiy.com (You did that...............)

mikelawson · #23 (**permalink**) 09-11-09, 06:42 PM

In the car is far faster, I do it everyday. Yes it is a little tight in a couple spots, but I can bypass everything involved in the dopping of the cradle (disconnection brake lines, pulling all the wiring harnesses, disconnecting the steering column, list goes on...). Everything I do with it in the car is the same as if it were out of the car, so you don't lose any time at all by doing it this way. Drilling is SUPER easy with Norms new drilling rig, basically fool proof. I will take some pictures of the 2001 Deville I have apart to show just how much room there is. I have done all generation sevilles/eldorados/devilles and ALL should be done in the car assuming the oil pan is not POURING oil as it is less likely to do damage to the wiring by pulling the cradle out. I have done it both ways and it's much easier for me to do it in the car. Just trying to defend my method as everyone always want to slam it. It's always stated to pull the engine to check other items, but that is not the normal procedure for any other car. If a starter fails, do you pull the engine to check other things as well?

bigtone · #24 (**permalink**) 09-11-09, 09:14 PM

I've only done one so far, and it was in the car. I second Mikes post above, it sounds like more work but in my mind I believe it's less work, but more tedious for sure. Some guys are bull force workers, some guys would rather do tedious, less back breaking type work. There are alot less things to disconnect by doing it in the car, and once you figuire out some tricks with the timing chains such as not removing the balancer and cover, overall I'd have to say it wasnt that bad. Now, if I could just find a deal on a 2000+ Deville that needs HG's.......

**Ranger** · #25 (**permalink**) 09-11-09, 09:44 PM

Not sure my back could take another job like that, but if I did, I'd opt for in the car anytime if it is doable.

Seems to me we had a 2000 with a HG problem here not long ago Bigtone. Don't recall if he was going to repair or sell it.

submariner409 · #26 (**permalink**) 09-12-09, 11:34 AM

Mike, Nobody's knocking your methods of inserting the block while still in the car. The OP was looking at studs, and that's a definite "out of the car" process. Given the machining required to insert a block my take on all this is:

1. Studs - out of the car

2. Norm's Inserts, novice install - out of the car (less chance for a machining error, which we have seen - the head stud bending questions).

3. Norm's Inserts, experienced mechanic install, in the car.

With Norm's new drill jig, point 2. may be moot.

zonie77 · #27 (**permalink**) 09-13-09, 03:48 AM

My humble opinions,

In the car you are leaning over the fenders, working at awkward angles, hard to access timing chains, more prone to mistakes or not completing. Mike Lawson's done many and knows the techniques. He is in a different position from someone doing the first one. ( Mike, I don't disco the brakes, just hang the calipers and ABS module on the body.)

Out the top, wasn't designed for this, hard to access bolts, harder than normal to pull out the top. Jake is experienced in this technique and knows what tools (extensions, swivels, hoist adapter, etc) he needs to do it. Then you need an engine stand.

Lift the body off, easiest for first time DIY. Leaves the engine accessible for inserts or studs, once the body is off it is very easy to work on. As Tateos said, seems scary but it's not. I recommend this way for anyone doing it the first time. Cradle acts as an engine stand. Once you've done it this way you would have an easier time doing it the other ways if you wanted.

JSTS02 · #28 (**permalink**) 09-13-09, 11:42 PM

Well hey... if you can do it in the car... then i'd say why not...

Quick question... when doing it in the car... what all gaskets and seals should be replaced?

Seeing as though you are taking much less apart... you wouldn't need as many new seals and gaskets... but I'm not sure if there are others that must be replaced as part of taking it apart and putting back together (other than head gaskets of course) and are they reusable?

also... how much should a motor mount be?...because one of mine are torn... rock auto said like $40...