'93 North* Glitch out of hand!

[Mountie]

I'm getting exhausted!! I found new/ used vacuum parts for TB area. No change, but now I can adjust my ISC (0.60 gap). But, warming up the engine I also figured to see if there was air in the coolant system. I kept the tank cap off for a bit. The car got hot driving around the neighborhood yesterday spewing out the little hose. The car did cool down to 117.??

Today, the fans didn't turn on until 225 degrees, and the coolant was flying out of the overflow & steaming! I turned on the Air before the fans turned on, and stayed on after turning off the Air. ??

After cooling down, I'm hoping to replenish the coolant to hopefully balance both sides of the thermostat????? How do I fill both sides to make sure I have all the water? I hope low coolant is low? ( The tank was full before starting car)...

So far, the oil & coolant seem clear of any oil/ water mix. The dreadded head gasket.... I don't believe so.....

I had concerns about "white smoke" which is a lot when first starting up. - Yesterday it had a lot of white smoke ( gas related?)

This morning no smoke.

I don't have a million dollars to send it to a shop for all this stuff.

The end-all might be buying a crate motor? But I must know if I NEED TO!!

I'm so frustrated.

Everything else about the STS is fantastic. ( Sell it -or just install a crate motor & you got a great car - 2 y/o tranny, etc)

[RexCaroll]

Im no caddilac expert mechanic. But I have a few ideas for you. #1 the fans should not be waiting till the motor is red hot before turning on. It could be a bad fan thats not starting when its supose to, a bad thermo switch, or a bad relay. My suggestion is wirer the fan hot to run all the time and drive the balls off the car and see if it overheats. If it starts to heat up make sure the fans still running. If it is you can look else where for your problem. Like bad thermostat, water pump or bad head gasket....

Rex

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by RexCaroll

Im no caddilac expert mechanic. But I have a few ideas for you. #1 the fans should not be waiting till the motor is red hot before turning on. It could be a bad fan thats not starting when its supose to, a bad thermo switch, or a bad relay. My suggestion is wirer the fan hot to run all the time and drive the balls off the car and see if it overheats. If it starts to heat up make sure the fans still running. If it is you can look else where for your problem. Like bad thermostat, water pump or bad head gasket....

Rex

I'm trying to remember what temp the fans should turn on. When I bought the car I had to 'tap' the relays and the one fan turned on, and replaced the other. I need to find at what temp they turn on, to see if one of the relays are bad.

If the fans don't turn on, does it heat up THAT MUCH? & so fast??

[STSj90]

225 is not red hot. Its normal for the northstar. Actually ive seen that its common for it to get hotter than that on curtain days. But shouldnt go past 232.

Id say everything is fine. Sounds like if you filled the coolant to the top..Thats too much. And it will puke it out. Needs to be half way up the tank cold with the engine off.
And the smoke could very well be cold smoke. Wich is normal. What was the outside air temp when the white ''smoke'' was coming out?


ALSO, I beleive the fans come on at 224....

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by STSj90

225 is not red hot. Its normal for the northstar. Actually ive seen that its common for it to get hotter than that on curtain days. But shouldnt go past 232.

Id say everything is fine. Sounds like if you filled the coolant to the top..Thats too much. And it will puke it out. Needs to be half way up the tank cold with the engine off.
And the smoke could very well be cold smoke. Wich is normal. What was the outside air temp when the white ''smoke'' was coming out?


ALSO, I beleive the fans come on at 224....

75 degrees.

Warm & cold days..... Not the typical amount of smoke, wondering about a fuel glitch - Stuck injector, 'cause the idle stumbles a bit when it happens. Excess gas. But it didn't happen, ( stumble), today, except for 30 seconds. & no smoke today.

It's hard to see where "half way " is in the tank.

[submariner409]

Somewhere around halfway full, COLD, is about correct. Much over that and it all spits out on the ground as the coolant expands with engine temperature rise. A LOT of coolant will blow out before the pressure cap seats again: it is not designed to seat against liquid pressure, only gasses.

If the '93 is anything close to the later series N* the fans go to slow at 224 degrees or A/C ON. Fans to fast at coolant 236 degrees or transmission at 304.

There's a purge line in the coolant system which runs from near the top of the surge tank (NOT the overflow line which may ba attached at the tank neck) to a fitting near the water pump and thermostat housing. This line removes gas bubbles from the coolant and bleeds the gasses to the surge tank airspace in order to lower crevice corrosion and water pump cavitation. Check the purge line for free flow, and if necessary clean out the water pump end and the tank nipple.

[Ranger]

Next time you start it and it starts "smoking", go back there and stick your nose in the tail pipe. If it smeels like fuel, it's an injector or FPR. If it smeels sweet like coolant, bend over.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Next time you start it and it starts "smoking", go back there and stick your nose in the tail pipe. If it smeels like fuel, it's an injector or FPR. If it smeels sweet like coolant, bend over.

I tried real hard to smell coolant back there.... (sounds gross?)....

Almost passed out...... Can't say it's coolant. Not sweet.
Fuel only.

Re: uneven - higher idle glitch....
Hey, The ISC plunger doesn't move off the throttle. Following directions. ( But I can push the throttle away from it.) Is the 0.60 gap BETWEEN the plunger & throttle 'tip'?? I can use a 9mm to turn the bolt/plunger.

Can I just replace the ISC with the one that was on my old North*?

I'll jump on the FPR & Inj. next.

Eee - gads..... This crap is all at once....

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Next time you start it and it starts "smoking", go back there and stick your nose in the tail pipe. If it smeels like fuel, it's an injector or FPR. If it smeels sweet like coolant, bend over.

I looked in my Manual..... '93 Volume 1, FPR is on page 6C-12 to 14, etc., is 4.9 (vinB). WHERE IS 4.6 VIN 9????

I can't seem to locate where the FPR is. The back of the manual says they are both together on the same page, but it isn't.

There is a vacuum connection to the TB on one side, FPR on the other side of the part. Where is it?? Up by the TB? Or down hidden somewhere?

Inside the "Turtle" cover at injectors? I have the extra Inj. assy. but not sure what to find..

[Ranger]

Is the 0.60 gap BETWEEN the plunger & throttle 'tip'??

Yes, when the plunger is fully retracted.

On the '93/'94, the FPR is on the fuel rail, inside the manifold. Remove the manifold cover. Since it is subjected to manifold vacuum, there will be no vacuum hose to the nipple. Turn the key on to activate the fuel pump and pressurize the fuel system, but DO NOT crank the engine or it will run away at WOT and bounce off the rev limiter. Look for fuel leakage from the FPR nipple.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Yes, when the plunger is fully retracted.

On the '93/'94, the FPR is on the fuel rail, inside the manifold. Remove the manifold cover. Since it is subjected to manifold vacuum, there will be no vacuum hose to the nipple. Turn the key on to activate the fuel pump and pressurize the fuel system, but DO NOT crank the engine or it will run away at WOT and bounce off the rev limiter. Look for fuel leakage from the FPR nipple.

I found where the FPR is, looking in my spare Injector assy. Looking in the Manual, it seems I need to buy a box of 'O' rings, & the LEARN PROCEDURES!! What the heck??

My gosh! I wish I could find a " Cadillac Owner's .COM friendly" local independent service shop!! I may make a glitch into a mess, if I don't know how to adjust, code selections, etc.

I just don't have $500.00 to take this glitch to a dealer!

Can I relieve the fuel pressure, be CAREFUL WITH 'o' RINGS, & just replace the FPR if needed? Let the computer do the adjust?

The manual directions seem to be for the 4.9L, and not the North*, anyway? North* is different procedures?

By the way, I opened the TB butterfly, turned on the ignition, and used a flashlight to see ( over to the right) the base of the FPR inside the opening. I saw no evidence of fuel leaking. ( I should be able to see it there?)

I'm capable of removing the Inj. lid & pulling up the Inj rail myself......

Would fuel be spouting out of the top / vacuum nipple? Not having to remove the fuel rail anyway?

( Man-o-man ).....

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Yes, when the plunger is fully retracted.

On the '93/'94, the FPR is on the fuel rail, inside the manifold. Remove the manifold cover. Since it is subjected to manifold vacuum, there will be no vacuum hose to the nipple. Turn the key on to activate the fuel pump and pressurize the fuel system, but DO NOT crank the engine or it will run away at WOT and bounce off the rev limiter. Look for fuel leakage from the FPR nipple.

Even when fully retracted, the throttle is still against the plunger. Do I keep turning the plunger/bolt head until I get the 0.60?

I plugged in the other ISC to the car, turned on the ign. and it clicked & vibrated like crazy! Seems to work, but work well? It seemed to be fine when it was in the car when the original engine was still in, & it idled fine.

But it looks like the plunger is the same distance as the one in the car?

[Ranger]

I'm not sure if you can detect a leak in the FPR by looking through the TB. It may only be a small drip. You can R&R the FPR with the fuel rail in place. Just be sure to relieve the fuel pressure first by holding a rag on the service port (Schroeder valve) and depressing the valve pin (Just like letting air out of a tire).

If when fully retracted, the plunger is still against the throttle linkage, turn the plunger in until you have the .060 gap. Then drive it and it should relearn the idle in a few days. A clicking and ratcheting ISC more is a sign that it is going bad.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

I'm not sure if you can detect a leak in the FPR by looking through the TB. It may only be a small drip. You can R&R the FPR with the fuel rail in place. Just be sure to relieve the fuel pressure first by holding a rag on the service port (Schroeder valve) and depressing the valve pin (Just like letting air out of a tire).

If when fully retracted, the plunger is still against the throttle linkage, turn the plunger in until you have the .060 gap. Then drive it and it should relearn the idle in a few days. A clicking and ratcheting ISC more is a sign that it is going bad.

I'm struggling, but also learning...... I remember a couple weeks ago the ISC was 'clicking' for 20 seconds before stopping, after I turned the car off.

So I can get a new one.

Also, ( keep in mind) I'm testing my R&R on my old Injector assy. before I do it on the actual car.

Removing the Inj. lid, the plastic frame for the injectors/fuel rail is one piece..... I have to lift it completly up to get at the FPR, lifting the Injectors also. It's troublesome to squeeze the plastic tabs on the plastic fuel rail frame, leaving the Injectors attached to the intake, and still have to keep everything undamaged. Easier to just lift the whole assy.

I wonder if I can test Injectors now? Maybe just look & see if one opening is different than the others ( stuck)....

I'm going to learn about injectors now.....

[Ranger]

Sounds like a failing ISC motor. Check rockauto or gmotors for a new one.

I do not believe you have to remove the fuel rail or the injectors to R&R the FPR. Just remove the manifold cover and it should be mounted right on the fuel rail.