'93 North* Glitch out of hand!

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Yeah, try that and if that does not work, then start the procedure from the start as initially instructed. I'm not sure if it is shipped fully retracted or not.

If the "smoke" smells like gas, then you have a stuck open injector(s). Maybe a bad FPR, but I would think it would have to be pretty bad. Should be easy to tell.

The ISC was retracted new..... I installed it and NO difference. ( anyone want a new ISC?) But I had to know for sure, so I got a new one.

As soon as I plugged it in, the plunger came out, and like the old ones, it won't push all the way back inside at all. ( Note previous ISC photos) . Like the other ones, the plunger only manualy pushes back in only a little bit.

With ISC unplugged, the idle is not consistant. With the ISC PLUGGED IN, the idle is not consistant.

ALSO, with ISC plugged in, & I rev up the RPM, it stays high for a long moment, THEN drops down..SLOWLY back to a high idle.

With the ISC UNPLUGGED, and I rev it up,it comes down MUCH BETTER but still a high idle.

Hey, how is it "Easy to tell" if it is an injector or FPR??????

( slightly rough idle during white smoke ) A LOT of smoke ..then it clears up and during my testing, no more smoke.

( Redundant > A local Northstar guy?? )

[Ranger]

Is the ISC plunger screwed all the way in?

I think we went through how to test the FPR. If that is not leaking then you'll have to pull the fuel rail and energize the fuel pump and look for a leaking injector.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Is the ISC plunger screwed all the way in?

I think we went through how to test the FPR. If that is not leaking then you'll have to pull the fuel rail and energize the fuel pump and look for a leaking injector.

The ISC plunger when purchased, was all the way in. It seems, when plugged in for the very first time, it pops out, and will never go all the way in, again.

Yes, the plunger bolt is pretty much screwed all the way in, with no gap ...ever between throttle & the tip of the plunger bolt. ( Just like the other old ones).....

I wonder if I attempt to drive it (as you say) have the car re-learn the idle position? Before doing other $$ questionable parts?

I still don't understand the reason why the idle, when I rev it to 2,500RPM, it "holds" the idle up there for 5 seconds before slowly dropping down, WHEN ISC IS PLUGGED IN........

I have not heard mention about the TPS........ ? Would that be defective & mess with idle control as mentioned?

I'd rather solve the idle glitch before messing with opening up the Injector lid ......

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Is the ISC plunger screwed all the way in?

I think we went through how to test the FPR. If that is not leaking then you'll have to pull the fuel rail and energize the fuel pump and look for a leaking injector.

This morning, just turning on the ignition, the NEW ISC motor was running & the plunger was "clicking" back & forth for about 30 seconds.

Turning off the ignition does the same thing!

( Is the car "learning"?)

The old one did the same thing sometimes.

What the hell would cause that??

I'm calling a mechanic that might have worked on these before, I hope!

[Ranger]

A ratcheting ISC motor is a sign that it is failing.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

A ratcheting ISC motor is a sign that it is failing.

It's the NEW ISC that was ratcheting!!

No offence.... But are you sure? It's new*

( * "new" = Not a known good ) Heck if it's bad, I hope I can return it.

I am going to remove the Injector lid & check the FPR for leaks.... thinking it is leaking into the plenium ( intake manifold ) causing all the white gas smoke.

Whew!!

[Ranger]

My understanding is that a ratcheting ISC motor is bad. It's not supposed to do that. See if anyone thinks otherwise. Maybe you could find and try the idle learn procedure and see if that helps, but I'm guessing it won't. I don't like that ratcheting.

If the "smoke" smells like gas, then it is unburnt fuel vapor. That is an extremely rich condition and it has to be an injector(s) or FPR.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

My understanding is that a ratcheting ISC motor is bad. It's not supposed to do that. See if anyone thinks otherwise. Maybe you could find and try the idle learn procedure and see if that helps, but I'm guessing it won't. I don't like that ratcheting.

If the "smoke" smells like gas, then it is unburnt fuel vapor. That is an extremely rich condition and it has to be an injector(s) or FPR.

I'm learning & listening.......
I was told a bad injector, usually, is in the closed position, making me believe the FPR is leaking the fuel, causing white smoke. I'm checking tomorrow.

I'll research the ratcheting tomorrow if possible.

[Ranger]

I'm not sure how injectors "usually" fail. I would tend to agree with you (in the closed) position, but I suppose it is possible to have some debris cause the pintle to stick open. I'm kind of thinking FPR though, because you said that the smoke is not constant. I'm envisioning the fuel pooling in the intake until enough builds up to get sucked in and run a cylinder or two very rich. If that is the case, the possibility of enough pooling to cause a hydrolock situation is rather scary.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

I'm not sure how injectors "usually" fail. I would tend to agree with you (in the closed) position, but I suppose it is possible to have some debris cause the pintle to stick open. I'm kind of thinking FPR though, because you said that the smoke is not constant. I'm envisioning the fuel pooling in the intake until enough builds up to get sucked in and run a cylinder or two very rich. If that is the case, the possibility of enough pooling to cause a hydrolock situation is rather scary.

Years ago, being a crew chief on an Off-Shore Powerboat racer, I had an engine hatch out for repair. It rained. The weight of water lowered the canvas cover, punching a hole from the carb aircleaner stud, filling engine w/ rain. Starting the 600 ci Chevy, it locked up "CLUNK". ( Water) We drained it.... It was fine.

I believe the fuel is only in the plenium , creating smog out the pipe.

I HOPE.......

[Ranger]

Another thought comes to mind. The fuel rail in inside the manifold on your engine. Perhaps IT is leaking.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Another thought comes to mind. The fuel rail in inside the manifold on your engine. Perhaps IT is leaking.

Well, I'll find out soon enough..... I'm preparing to remove the Injector cover. I suppose I don't have to release fuel pressure until I do a leak test? I hope I can remove the cover without raising/ dislodging the fuel parts inside. ...Patience......

Using a flashlight, I'll turn on the ignition & see what I find. Then depending on WHAT I find, I may raise up the fuel rail , etc. I hope 'O' rings ( Injectors) will be alright.... I may clean up around the system, etc.

I wish I had access to the diagnostic toys...... I have spare MAP sensor, etc.......

Wish me luck.....

[Ranger]

Right, you don't have to relieve fuel pressure until and if you open the fuel system.

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Right, you don't have to relieve fuel pressure until and if you open the fuel system.

I saw no evidence of a drip or leakage anywhere. Nothing came out of the FPR vacuum tip. Even though, the whole thing has a residue..all over inside the Injector interior & on top of the plastic "gasket". I cleaned the FPR & dried it off. Dried off at the base of the FPR ( using an air hose & 'Q' Tip.

I turned on the ignition....and even did a "bump the starter" to encourage a leak. Nothing found.

The injection valley, down inside, had only a tiny bit of residual wetness, in the crevice ( shown in photo - my spare Injection, but it looks the same)

By TURNING ON THE IGNITION... does that in itself build fuel pressure to locate a leak?

I wonder if I can take the Injectors/ fuel rail to a shop to check injectors. I THINK I may be able to remove it from the cast housing?

( In through the nose....out the mouth.....)

[Mountie]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Right, you don't have to relieve fuel pressure until and if you open the fuel system.

Well.... next,...... After drying & wiping what I could get to ( fuel rail still attached)....... I noticed raw fuel puddeling on the bottom surface, just inside of the butterfly. Wiping it again, engaging the starter ( It won't start up with a 10 sec, turn-over)..... Fuel is running down from where the FUEL INLET connection is. ( If you look into throttle body opening, it's at the 11:00 position)..... Fuel runs down ( not a lot but is visible to my NAKED eye).

Now, maybe because the car is NOT starting, it leaks out? But I don't think so?

I can ASSUME..... Raw fuel down inside the air box, gets into the air mixture?? Blowing out the tail pipe?

I can ASSUME the fuel inlet connection is leaking fuel while running, but how does it continue to leak ENOUGH fuel when turned off, to create so much smoke at start-up??

I can ASSUME I need to finally lift off the fuel rail? And spend another $4,500 on some dealer 'O' rings for the fuel rail hose connections?

................