VIN or other link to body stamped on block?

turbojimmy · #1 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 02:09 PM

Greetings all,

My mom was having trouble with her transmission in her '02 Deville. She had it repaired late last year under an extended warranty. 2 days before the warranty was to expire in March of this year the SES light came on again indicating a problem with the transmission (torque converter). Like a fool, I cleared the code. Luckily it came back, but by then she was outside the warranty period. The dealer was cool about it and said they 'talked GM into honoring the warranty'.

My parents brought the car in last week and had it fixed. Strangely it was done within a day. As soon as we got it back my dad noticed that a) it was using a lot of coolant, b) it was leaking a lot of oil and c) the engine was a lot dirtier than it was before. It has a bad headgasket. The transmission is fixed though

I think they swapped the entire drivetrain out instead of repairing the transmission. I think that would be the quickest, easiest thing for them to do if they had one laying around.

So, is there any sort of number stamped on the block that would tie it to the VIN tag on the body?

Thanks,
Jim

submariner409 · #2 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 02:53 PM

Looking at the engine in the car: below the "left end" (actually the front) of the rear cylinder head there is a pad on the side of the block with a set of numbers called a "VIN derivative". You'll have to get the car up in the air in order to get light and angle correct in order to see it. There may also still be a tag stuck to the front of the rear cam chain cover which has the same number.

Scoot over to the dealer and walk around back.......drivetrain sitting in the junkyard ?????

turbojimmy · #3 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner409

Looking at the engine in the car: below the "left end" (actually the front) of the rear cylinder head there is a pad on the side of the block with a set of numbers called a "VIN derivative". You'll have to get the car up in the air in order to get light and angle correct in order to see it. There may also still be a tag stuck to the front of the rear cam chain cover which has the same number.

Scoot over to the dealer and walk around back.......drivetrain sitting in the junkyard ?????

Thanks for that. By "left end" you mean as I'm facing it or do you mean the driver's side?

I talked to my dad and he also replaced his battery over the weekend because the car wouldn't start. Turned out to be a lazy starter - another problem he didn't have before it was 'fixed'.

I'll see if my dad will snoop around the dealer.....

Jim

submariner409 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 03:15 PM

The part of the block closest to the passenger's feet, technically the right lower side of the block.......near the front (accessory drive) end.

turbojimmy · #5 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner409

The part of the block closest to the passenger's feet, technically the right lower side of the block.......near the front (accessory drive) end.

Got it. I was looking over there with a flashlight (from up top) and didn't see anything. I'll put it up on the lift when I get home to see what I can see.

Thanks,
Jim

AJxtcman · #6 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 07:23 PM

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ain-parts.html (How to Identify Northstar Power-Train parts)

turbojimmy · #7 (**permalink**) 05-15-08, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJxtcman

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ain-parts.html (How to Identify Northstar Power-Train parts)

Awesome! Thank you.

Jim

Eldo1953 · #8 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 01:00 AM

Unreal. Now your mom needs a new engine. Please follow up on this story when you find out more!

turbojimmy · #9 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldo1953

Unreal. Now your mom needs a new engine. Please follow up on this story when you find out more!

I know it's crazy. He asked to see the paperwork at the dealer and they said they lost it. My parents didn't get a receipt or anything other than the credit card slip. Again this is a DEALER, a well known one in this area I might add. My dad spoke with them last night and they said they're working with GM to see what they will do. I think he should get the car out of there.

Oh yeah - one other thing. The catalytic converter now has a rattle like a box of rocks. It's been a while since I've been under my car, but would it make sense that if they swapped the drivetrain over that the cat would go with it? It's attached to the crossover, correct? Would come out with the engine?

Jim

submariner409 · #10 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 11:23 AM

Maybe cat, maybe not......but a used cat is somewhat fragile in that the core is a ceramic honeycomb plated with Rhodium, Palladium, and Platinum. After years or more of running around at hundreds of degrees temp it gets fragile. A few raps or a drop and gonzo.

I'll bet, from this side of the coin, that your dad got shafted. If you bird dog this I'll bet he can wind up with a new, not rebuilt, engine and transmission.

Technically the dealer has committed fraud. Pursue the end result.

BTW, I believe that year cat has a 4-bolt flange and flex on the front and is a welded, integral part of the entire rest of the exhaust system: My '02 is (was, CORSA installed) that setup.

turbojimmy · #11 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner409

Maybe cat, maybe not......but a used cat is somewhat fragile in that the core is a ceramic honeycomb plated with Rhodium, Palladium, and Platinum. After years or more of running around at hundreds of degrees temp it gets fragile. A few raps or a drop and gonzo.

I'll bet, from this side of the coin, that your dad got shafted. If you bird dog this I'll bet he can wind up with a new, not rebuilt, engine and transmission.

Technically the dealer has committed fraud. Pursue the end result.

BTW, I believe that year cat has a 4-bolt flange and flex on the front and is a welded, integral part of the entire rest of the exhaust system: My '02 is (was, CORSA installed) that setup.

Thanks for the info.

I CORSA-fied my '01, too, but I don't remember what the cat arrangement was. I couldn't remember where the flange was - on the exhaust side or engine side of the cat.

I haven't heard from my dad today but I'd prefer that he get the car out of there.

Jim

turbojimmy · #12 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 05:53 PM

Well I'm sorry to say that it's a combination of conspiracy theory, paranoia and bad timing. According to the VIN derivative, the engine in the car is the one that belongs in it. The car developed a nasty oil leak and a blown head gasket while in the hands of the dealer, but there isn't anything more nefarious than that. The dealer said that GM was willing to 'help' with the repair cost but that's about it.

My dad thinks someone was beating on it, but no one beats on a Northstar harder than I do every day and I have to say they're tough to kill. But when it's time, it's time.

I think he might junk it. Not sure at this point.

EDIT: Get this for irony: me, my brother and my dad have all blown a head gasket in the past 30 days. Mine was in the Grand National and was much more violent at that hands of an apprentice at a transmission shop (pending lawsuit). My brother discovered his yesterday (Turbo Buick).

Jim

RickyHenry · #13 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 07:45 PM

Maybe a Lead Foot is a genetic disorder?

turbojimmy · #14 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyHenry

Maybe a Lead Foot is a genetic disorder?

A lead foot will only break something that's not designed to hack it. The Northstars and the electronic engine management is a pretty stout arrangement (generally speaking).

I've raced my GN for the past 6 years without breaking it. Last month I left it with a transmission shop for a week and I get it back with 2 blown head gaskets, 2 broken pistons and 3 bent connecting rods. Oh yeah, cooked main bearings and demolished crankshaft.

I don't know what happened to my brother's car. I think it's been like that for years, frankly. He just noticed it yesterday while trying to find the source of an idle problem he's been haunted with for years. The gasket was blown out to the atmosphere and barely leaking. It was very subtle and just one cylinder was down about 20 PSI on compression. Plugs showed that cylinder bank was lean all the time though.

My mom's car is just BS. She's babied that thing all its life. If my DTS were to quit tomorrow I'd chalk it up to my driving habits. Maybe my mom needs a heavier right foot?

Jim

RickyHenry · #15 (**permalink**) 05-16-08, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyHenry

Maybe a Lead Foot is a genetic disorder?

oops, i didn't mean to add disorder to that... just genetic. Wouldn't you agree that high RPMs tend to shorten the lifespan of an engine? In case, I deal in Boats... they have 2 gears... forward & reverse. The boat is normally always spinning around 3500 rpms. However; a lot of customers would preferr to go Wot on those things for the fact that there are only 2 gears. Short story, those blocks tend to lose their gaskets sooner than say, a car with the same amount of hours on the engine. Just imho, lead foot = shorter lifetime.