Oh come on people.... Mr. Lincoln is a troll... nothing more, nothing less, and one who seems endowed with more bias than straight-up common sense. I mean... anyone who comes to a Cadillac forum and registers a username of "Lenny Lincoln" is only looking to
The fact remains... it's easier to remain blinded by hypocrisy than it is to open one's eyes. There's no possible way that he was honestly looking to have his mind changed because he refuses to listen.
I hate to break it to you Mr. Lincoln... but all cars have their problems, Lincoln's are no exception and if you say otherwise - you're a liar. If the average repair cost on a Lincoln is cheaper than a Cadillac... then there's VERY GOOD REASON... you know why? That's because:
A.) They're a dinosaur that rides on a platform which is 30(!) years old now, and..
B.) They're nothing but a superficially gussied-up, glorified Ford.
So... if we apply the basic law of syllogism to this situation in that:
Lincolns are only Fords with shiny bits and higher price tags; Fords and their parts commonplace and cheap; therefore Lincolns and their parts are commonplace and cheap, as would be repairs to such.
A Lincoln is nothing more than a premium Ford... there's nothing special, nor exotic about them and the only thing that makes possibly makes them unique is their complete and utter lack of uniqueness.
The Ford modular V8??? Does your mind honestly make any kind of comparison between that and the Northstar... or even to any GM V8 for that matter? It's nothing more than a giant heap of pig-iron... and how on earth do they manage to "squeeze" such a small amount of power out of such a large displacement? Moreover... why on earth would one want a truck engine in their "luxury" car? It may have not been originally in there, but the fact remains it wound up in the F150... So how could one possibly compare that to an engine that was purpose built to compete in the luxury market? I'm not even that big of a fan of OHC design... but if you're going to do it, why would you only give it a single cam and 16 valves like the one in your Town Car... what's the point?
And it's not like the modular doesn't have it's own, more than fair share of problems my friend.... The last time I checked, there was never a class-action lawsuit against Cadillac/GM over the Northstar. Hmmm... did you know about that, or would you just rather ignore that as well? In '96, Ford began installing defective intake manifolds on the 2-valve 4.6's... and the continued using them on vehicles manufactured through '01 (up to some '02 MY vehicles) and they did this despite knowing full well there were some serious problems with it... Yes, the Northstar has some problems... problems caused largely from poor and improper maintenance... but NOTHING quite like Ford installing defective manifolds which had this uncanny tendency to crack at the front of the crossover which would then leak coolant and subsequently cause overheating and/or catastrophic engine failure. Then they were kind enough to offer a recall on fleet vehicles... but gave a big "up yours" to the average customer which led them being taken to court because they refused to do the right thing.
And then you have the nerve to balk about depreciation?? Do you know what depreciates as much, if not more than a Cadillac?
That's right... a Lincoln. Let's take a look at two top of the line cars - a 2002 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L and a 2002 Cadillac Deville DTS, both were compared with similar options and the same mileage - 72,000 (12K/year)...
The price, when new for the Town Car was $49,235 and the Deville was $47,880...
Kelly Blue Book puts both at $17K... for the Town Car, that's a depreciation of 65.5% over 6 years and the Deville at 64.5% of the same time.
NADA again, surprisingly gives them the same value - $14K each... so that's 71.6% lost on the Town Car and 70.8% on the Deville.
However... Edmunds (which I've always found to be the most accurate reflection of actual market values), lists the Town Car at $12,950 and the Deville at $14,600. SO... that's a depreciation of 73.7% on the TC and only 69.6%.
So even though the depreciation on Cadillacs really is sad... that makes the rate of loss on Lincolns absolutely pathetic.... AND I don't even think that was the most proper of comparisons since the Town Car is supposed to be Lincoln's top of the line flagship model... technically speaking, the Seville was Cadillac's top of the line flagship... if I had done that it would have made the contrast stand out all the more.
The purpose of you post was never to actually gather information or to actually learn anything... all it was meant to do was to ruffle some feathers... you had no intention of being talked into buying a new Cadillac. You came to your conclusion from 'everything [you] read" on the forums about the Northstar.... Well... HELLO??? Obviously a site meant to help research and fix problems on a car will have a high number of posts containing problems about that car... it's one of the biggest points of the forum. What about that don't you realize??? It's like that on any and every forum for any and every car.... and like Jim (submariner) pointed out.... any of the problems reported on this site represent a very small number compared to the amount actually shipped.... most people who come to this site do so originally because the have a problem, plain and simple.
Unfortunately for you... I have way too much time on my hands currently and can take the time to point out all the errors of you logic and ways... I'm not saying this to be mean... but a Northstar Cadillac is obviously not for you... not because they're bad engines or cars - because they're not in the least bit.... but because you seem totally incapable of appreciating them for what they are, and that is a world-class engine built into fine, much above average automobiles... not some big, gas-guzzling dinosaur riding on a platform that was put into production during the Carter administration.
Even if you had shown some propensity to read... it would be very easy to find out that if you're honestly looking for a newer, bigger Deville, but find the Northstar to be so appalling... Cadillac actually did make the bigger, newer body style Deville with the 4.9 in the base models from '94 to '95 or '96, if I recall... So there, all of your problems have been solved.
And Goff has taken the ball...uh......uh...he shoots....he scores!
__________________ -Chad
From all of these signs saying sorry but we're closed
All the way down the telegraph road
-Dire Straits, Telegraph Road. 1982
Yes N/A. Near perfect weather conditions. About 500 feet above sea level. 60' time was 2.2
This car ran 14.66 stock on 18's.
less than your STS i can say that much....
theres no way your car is running that fast
sorry no way no how....
the ESC on the board with a 100 shot of NOS is pulling a 13.9
my ETC has all your mods and them some including a JET prototype chip, my custom built cat back exhaust system etc etc etc...
till i see a dyno or a time slip to prove me wrong i stand by my statement
and if next you state you got your times by using anything that mounts to your dash, youve only further proven my case as they are notoriously wrong....
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Oh come on people.... Mr. Lincoln is a troll... nothing more, nothing less, and one who seems endowed with more bias than straight-up common sense. I mean... anyone who comes to a Cadillac forum and registers a username of "Lenny Lincoln" is only looking to
The fact remains... it's easier to remain blinded by hypocrisy than it is to open one's eyes. There's no possible way that he was honestly looking to have his mind changed because he refuses to listen.
I hate to break it to you Mr. Lincoln... but all cars have their problems, Lincoln's are no exception and if you say otherwise - you're a liar. If the average repair cost on a Lincoln is cheaper than a Cadillac... then there's VERY GOOD REASON... you know why? That's because:
A.) They're a dinosaur that rides on a platform which is 30(!) years old now, and..
B.) They're nothing but a superficially gussied-up, glorified Ford.
So... if we apply the basic law of syllogism to this situation in that:
Lincolns are only Fords with shiny bits and higher price tags; Fords and their parts commonplace and cheap; therefore Lincolns and their parts are commonplace and cheap, as would be repairs to such.
A Lincoln is nothing more than a premium Ford... there's nothing special, nor exotic about them and the only thing that makes possibly makes them unique is their complete and utter lack of uniqueness.
The Ford modular V8??? Does your mind honestly make any kind of comparison between that and the Northstar... or even to any GM V8 for that matter? It's nothing more than a giant heap of pig-iron... and how on earth do they manage to "squeeze" such a small amount of power out of such a large displacement? Moreover... why on earth would one want a truck engine in their "luxury" car? It may have not been originally in there, but the fact remains it wound up in the F150... So how could one possibly compare that to an engine that was purpose built to compete in the luxury market? I'm not even that big of a fan of OHC design... but if you're going to do it, why would you only give it a single cam and 16 valves like the one in your Town Car... what's the point?
And it's not like the modular doesn't have it's own, more than fair share of problems my friend.... The last time I checked, there was never a class-action lawsuit against Cadillac/GM over the Northstar. Hmmm... did you know about that, or would you just rather ignore that as well? In '96, Ford began installing defective intake manifolds on the 2-valve 4.6's... and the continued using them on vehicles manufactured through '01 (up to some '02 MY vehicles) and they did this despite knowing full well there were some serious problems with it... Yes, the Northstar has some problems... problems caused largely from poor and improper maintenance... but NOTHING quite like Ford installing defective manifolds which had this uncanny tendency to crack at the front of the crossover which would then leak coolant and subsequently cause overheating and/or catastrophic engine failure. Then they were kind enough to offer a recall on fleet vehicles... but gave a big "up yours" to the average customer which led them being taken to court because they refused to do the right thing.
And then you have the nerve to balk about depreciation?? Do you know what depreciates as much, if not more than a Cadillac?
That's right... a Lincoln. Let's take a look at two top of the line cars - a 2002 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L and a 2002 Cadillac Deville DTS, both were compared with similar options and the same mileage - 72,000 (12K/year)...
The price, when new for the Town Car was $49,235 and the Deville was $47,880...
Kelly Blue Book puts both at $17K... for the Town Car, that's a depreciation of 65.5% over 6 years and the Deville at 64.5% of the same time.
NADA again, surprisingly gives them the same value - $14K each... so that's 71.6% lost on the Town Car and 70.8% on the Deville.
However... Edmunds (which I've always found to be the most accurate reflection of actual market values), lists the Town Car at $12,950 and the Deville at $14,600. SO... that's a depreciation of 73.7% on the TC and only 69.6%.
So even though the depreciation on Cadillacs really is sad... that makes the rate of loss on Lincolns absolutely pathetic.... AND I don't even think that was the most proper of comparisons since the Town Car is supposed to be Lincoln's top of the line flagship model... technically speaking, the Seville was Cadillac's top of the line flagship... if I had done that it would have made the contrast stand out all the more.
The purpose of you post was never to actually gather information or to actually learn anything... all it was meant to do was to ruffle some feathers... you had no intention of being talked into buying a new Cadillac. You came to your conclusion from 'everything [you] read" on the forums about the Northstar.... Well... HELLO??? Obviously a site meant to help research and fix problems on a car will have a high number of posts containing problems about that car... it's one of the biggest points of the forum. What about that don't you realize??? It's like that on any and every forum for any and every car.... and like Jim (submariner) pointed out.... any of the problems reported on this site represent a very small number compared to the amount actually shipped.... most people who come to this site do so originally because the have a problem, plain and simple.
Unfortunately for you... I have way too much time on my hands currently and can take the time to point out all the errors of you logic and ways... I'm not saying this to be mean... but a Northstar Cadillac is obviously not for you... not because they're bad engines or cars - because they're not in the least bit.... but because you seem totally incapable of appreciating them for what they are, and that is a world-class engine built into fine, much above average automobiles... not some big, gas-guzzling dinosaur riding on a platform that was put into production during the Carter administration.
Even if you had shown some propensity to read... it would be very easy to find out that if you're honestly looking for a newer, bigger Deville, but find the Northstar to be so appalling... Cadillac actually did make the bigger, newer body style Deville with the 4.9 in the base models from '94 to '95 or '96, if I recall... So there, all of your problems have been solved.
OK , lets speak the truth. who here hasnt had a oil leaking NS or a head gasket blown in one? please included your year and your current mileage. Prove it to me that I am wrong and that these major issuses are just isolated events. I am looking to hear from the 90-150k crowd. Not the new car owners. What I meant by the 8k figure is once the cars value reaches the depreication figure of 8k its junk . YOu might as well park it out back and make a planter box out of it.
I guess everything is relative. I bought my 73k mile '97 Eldorado for 8k in 2004, one owner and well maintained by the local dealer. Here is what I did, though most people with money to burn wouldn't waste the effort on a "junk" car:
1. Carfax report
2. Pulled the dealer records of warranty work done.
3. Used a Snap-On freon leak detector to ensure the a/c system was leak free.
4. Used a Matco scan tool to check for pending trouble codes, and compared the live data stream to the specifications given in the FSM.
5. Used a special tool to check for hdyrocarbons(blown headgasket) in the coolant.
6. Had a bodyshop inspect for prior collision damage.
In the last four years, the car has needed only normal wear and tear repairs, such as tires, battery, belts, fuel filter, fluids, and ect. The interior and exterior are in near showroom condition since I have it detailed by a pro twice a year.
Let me make it clear, no oil leaks and no hg issues on this car, and I have the documentation back to day one.
I wonder if he will be back, after "amgoffus magnus, opus 41"?
__________________ CURRENT
1995 Deville Concours (1/2007-?)
2004 Escalade EXT (8/2007-?)
2000 Eldorado ETC (2/2008-?)
1970 Grand Prix Model J (4/2009-?)
FORMER
1992 Toronado (1995-1999)
1999 Grand Prix GTP (1999-2002)
2002 Avalanche North Face (2002-2004)
1993 Roadmaster (2004-2007)
2004 Avalanche Z71 (2004-2007)
1997 Riviera S/C (2006-2008)
First I am not agreeing w/Lincoln dude, but I just gotta throw in my last .02 on some of what's been said,
I know there has never been a class action against GM on the N*s but it is highly suspect that they first lengthened the head bolts, and then changed the thread pitch. To say that there is 'nothing wrong' except negligence or neglect on the part of the owner just isn't accurate. When AJ posts pictures of drilled out main head bolt holes whose blocks have turned to powder, there is definatley a manufacturing problem with the aluminum, not neglect or abuse...
less than your STS i can say that much....
theres no way your car is running that fast
sorry no way no how....
the ESC on the board with a 100 shot of NOS is pulling a 13.9
my ETC has all your mods and them some including a JET prototype chip, my custom built cat back exhaust system etc etc etc...
till i see a dyno or a time slip to prove me wrong i stand by my statement
and if next you state you got your times by using anything that mounts to your dash, youve only further proven my case as they are notoriously wrong....
How in the hell would you know your car is lighter than mine? Have any idea what a '95 seville weighs? Any fricken clue what your's weighs? I've been racing all sorts of cars for almost ten years. 100 shot on a 15 second boat sounds just about right to run a 13.9. I already posted my slip on the other post you called me out on. Quit crying because I'm not a checkbook racer like yourself. You don't even have a clue what all has been done to my car. Here's a hint, most of the modifications were fabricated myself. Also, Lapeer Raceway doesn't attatch to my dashboard. This is the same track where I ran 13.44@104.5 in a 2.0L neon. If you want to meet at this track this summer and race for $1000, I'm all for it. Bring your checkbook.
rofl
your messing with the wrong person if you wanna argue knowledge of the Northstar and the fact that the stock gross weight is listed for every year make and model as regulated by the GOVERNMENT...
and would you like a cookie you took a light weight POS and made it run a 13 sec 1/4, and guess what you drove home in that same pos neon....
as i said im not looking for a fight and it seems you just escalated it to that level, post a slip or a video or any sort of proof..... as i yet you have provided NONE....
and i dont have to write checks my mouth cant cash, i have my proof its called the laws of physics and aerodynamics...
wheres yours?
and thats straight from Cadillac.
so unless you riced out your STS by ripping every piece of interior from the car (wow way to be ruin a nice lux car by stripping it like you would a Honda) im gonna say your cars heavier than mine....
oh and this is an actual video of my car
no fluff
no outrageous claims that i cant back
just simple proof
if your as knowledgeable as you claim to be youll see that at 1 sec in im powerbrakeing and then take off going 0-70 in under 6 seconds
stock 0-60 is 6.7
with that i will be the bigger person here and say i have provided proof, and many of the members here know where i stand and how much i know about these cars and the Northstar system so to argue with you is petty and really childish
post your proof please and stop acting like a child yourself
Last edited by CadillacSTS2003; 04-07-08 at 11:57 PM.
OK , lets speak the truth. who here hasnt had a oil leaking NS or a head gasket blown in one?
1996 STS, 167k miles, just got a leak (due to the aftermarket cat converter).
Quote:
Originally Posted by darien99
100 shot on a 15 second boat sounds just about right to run a 13.9. I already posted my slip on the other post you called me out on.
Stock 1995 STS running 13.7 quarter mile? I don't believe that. Sounds like BS - on top of that, there are no mods and the only "custom fabricated" mod is a turbo that was done once. No proof of these mods and posting a 13.7 1/4 mile time with no timeslip as evidence won't get you anywhere. The best I have seen (STS) is a 14.6 1/4 mile. Besides, the only "mods" I have seen tend to ruin any performance. Which track is this? I'd like to run my 13.7 there... in my mom's Taurus. This info isn't valid.
Oh and the Intec was a marvel of the modern world...
lets see
4.6 Intech 260 HP
4.6 N* 275 or 300 HP
and thats JUST a starting point.... the Intec is no more immune to HG failure than a N*
N* worlds easier to work on only expensive if your stupid enough to go to the dealer and say hi I bought a Cadillac please rape me...
if thats your opinion on this car please stick to Lincoln...
The Intech in the Mark VIII has 280hp and the LSC has 290hp. They are NOT anywhere near as prone to blow a head gasket. The Intech is also very highly and easily modifiable, 500hp+++ is easily attainable. Not sure where you are getting your info from but its wrong.
The Intech in the Mark VIII has 280hp and the LSC has 290hp. They are NOT anywhere near as prone to blow a head gasket. The Intech is also very highly and easily modifiable, 500hp+++ is easily attainable. Not sure where you are getting your info from but its wrong.
In all fairness... 260 was the most Ford ever squeezed out of the single-cammer 16v 4.6L. The 4.6 used in the Mark VIII was the dual-cam, 32v version... which then begs the question, why only 290 in the "hot-rod" version...?
and thats straight from Cadillac.
so unless you riced out your STS by ripping every piece of interior from the car (wow way to be ruin a nice lux car by stripping it like you would a Honda) im gonna say your cars heavier than mine....
oh and this is an actual video of my car
no fluff
no outrageous claims that i cant back
just simple proof
if your as knowledgeable as you claim to be youll see that at 1 sec in im powerbrakeing and then take off going 0-70 in under 6 seconds
stock 0-60 is 6.7
with that i will be the bigger person here and say i have provided proof, and many of the members here know where i stand and how much i know about these cars and the Northstar system so to argue with you is petty and really childish
post your proof please and stop acting like a child yourself
You're a ****ing tool. I'm done here. I came here to learn more about modifying the northstar, and all I seem to find is this crap. I was ready to explain in depth all the info and tweaks that I've done to the suspension (notice the 2.2 60's?-you probably don't know what that means anyway), sensor tweaks, and other misc. you're sure the hell not getting out of me now. 14.66 stock isn't hard to believe, this is with the traction control off, something CAR&DRIVER does not do, hence they ran a 14.8 at their altitude/weather. I also ran 14.8 stock with my trac control on. There's many more informative sites out there with people that ran the same times or better in a '95. Calling someone's car a POS is childish. I stopped doing that when I was 15. 'Nuff said there.
If YOU knew anything about racing you wouldn't be timing your car stop watch style to 60. That tells us about jack shit. So I'll leave you alone here in your pretend dream world where you think you have "THE FASTEST VIN 9 CADDY", I'll go on continuing custom modifications and sensor tweaks to get every last pony out of the car. It was great sharing info with the rest of you.
FWIW-
My car is not stock weight, but its not a tin can either. You don't notice what is missing. I wouldn't do that to a Caddy.
My car does not have stock rubber, nor the stock size rubber
My car does not have the stock air intake
My car does not have a couple other quips that slow it down.
This car does not have stock sensor readings in a couple areas.
Re: for under 8k would anybody buy a NS Caddy? 
