97 Etc N* Head Gasket Project - Page 7

**Ranger** · #91 (**permalink**) 02-01-08, 03:33 PM

Doing them all is good insurance and always recommended. I am surprised that a tech would advise otherwise. Best of luck.

tateos · #92 (**permalink**) 02-01-08, 03:34 PM

krechtr - Do them all - my front head was the BAD one, but once I removed it, I could see the rear head wasn't far behind. Also, the cylinder head crossover gaskets showed signs of leaking - not enough to show up on the ground, but there was definitely a trail of leakage. I really like the Norm's kit, plus it was only $349 on e-bay including shipping - do a search for "NS300L". Either that, or get the BIG-SERTS, but I think the BIG-SERTS are way more expensive.

Personally, I would never do this job to make money. This job is too much of a PITA - it had to be a labor of love for me to do it. I couldn't bear to see my beautiful car, that I have owned since new, go to the crusher.

krechtr · #93 (**permalink**) 02-01-08, 08:29 PM

Thanks for the advice tateos. Sounds like you are getting a lot more involved in your car that I plan on this one. Are you working on your car this weekend or taking off for a Super Bowl party? Things are crazy in the valley this weekend with the golf tournament and the ball game.

krechtr · #94 (**permalink**) 02-02-08, 08:39 PM

Got the heads off today. Anyone have a timesert kit they want to sell?

AJxtcman · #95 (**permalink**) 02-03-08, 04:53 PM

Take a look at this Root cause failure thread

I think you need a login to see the Pictures.
Root Cause Failure

krechtr · #96 (**permalink**) 02-04-08, 07:26 PM

AJ... good thread and great pictures. Thanks. When I pulled the head bolts, none of the threads came out with them... Or if they did... it wasn't as obvious as the ones in the pictures you posted. Just looked like old sealant; although the bolt holes around where the gasket blew looked wetter and nastier than the others. I haven't cleaned up the block or the heads yet but I didn't see any obvious cracks or pitting. I am going to go ahead and order Norm's kit off ebay and use those just as insurance... I don't want to have to pull the motor again and I think it will be a selling point for the snow birds (all the retired people who come to Arizona for the winter). Anything else I need to know to keep me out of trouble?

tateos.. I really didn't mean to hijack your thread. Hopefully your aren't upset.

tateos · #97 (**permalink**) 02-05-08, 09:04 PM

krechtr - I went to Las Vegas for the Super Bowl - we were invited to the Four Queens for 3 free nights and a great Super Bowl Party. We left Las Vegas down $160 but stopped in Laughlin for 1/2 hour and ended up the weekend up $65.

When you loosened the bolts in the "wet" holes, did they "snap" like the rest? Mine didn't. Also, didn't the bolts in the wet holes come out with aluminum on the threads? Mine did.

I suggest you read (or re-read) AJs suggestions about the depth that you drill to, or at least calibrate the depth of the threaded portion. Like I wrote, I drilled the holes all the way, but then only tapped to the desired depth.

Richard Moore

tateos · #98 (**permalink**) 02-05-08, 09:36 PM

AJ - nice info and photos (well, some of the photo's are blurry...) at the link you provided for other site. Not sure if i ever asked your opinion - what goes first - the gasket or the threads? I was starting to think it is the gasket, but if thread depth and pitch changes have helped, maybe it is the threads that let go?

I contacted Rock Auto about the head bolt that snapped and he said it usually only happens if a bolt is overtightened, but he sent me a new set of bolts no charge and no questions asked; I thought that was pretty nice of them.

krechtr · #99 (**permalink**) 02-05-08, 11:14 PM

Tateos... I am glad you enjoyed Vegas. It's amazing how much they have cleaned up the downtown area. We stayed at the Golden Nugget a few months ago and had a lot of fun.

Yes, all of the bolts popped when I pulled them and no, none of the threads appeared to have come out. I already ordered the kit from Norm so I am committed now but based on AJ's feedback I am not convinced that they needed re-sleeved. I still haven't cleaned the threads out yet so it is hard to tell on some if they are still intact or not becuase of all of the crud in the bolt holes.

By the way, how long did it take Norm to get the kit to you once you paid for it? I paid for the kit two days ago and haven't heard a peep; no invoice, no tracking number, no email at all. I was hoping to get the kit by Saturday so I can get the heads back on and the motor back in the Caddy this weekend.

krechtr · #**100** (**permalink**) 02-06-08, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krechtr

By the way, how long did it take Norm to get the kit to you once you paid for it? I paid for the kit two days ago and haven't heard a peep; no invoice, no tracking number, no email at all.

Actually Norm emailed me last night... I think my days were running together. I didn't pay for it until the day before yesterday and he shipped it that day. Very nice guy. Very receptive. Looks like I may get to finish the job this weekend after all.

tateos · #**101** (**permalink**) 02-06-08, 02:59 PM

I think I received the Norms kit in 2 days - I think he ships FEDEX 2 day.

Do you have a helper? I found I really needed one to use the tap block for a guide and help me drill the holes straight (perpendicular to the block).

Where are you in AZ? I am in Fountain Hills

krechtr · #**102** (**permalink**) 02-06-08, 08:28 PM

Tateos... I am in East Mesa (Signal Butte and Broadway). My son and his buddy helped me get the motor off the car. He is actually the experienced one with overhead cams and front wheel drive cars (Honda freak). I am kind of nervous about drilling the block. I read you post though and it didn't look like you had too much of a problem... if memory serves, you had only done one bank at that point though. Have you finished drilling the block? Did you get your heads back on? If so, did you have any problems? Any advice for me? Like I said, I have to work all day Saturday but I plan to at least get the motor back together on Sunday.

krechtr · #**103** (**permalink**) 02-09-08, 01:48 AM

got Norms kit today... wow... 2 days!!! I wish all ebay transactions were that smooth. I can't wait to install it tomorrow. Too bad I am still waiting for the gaskets and head to get here (that I ordered before I orderd Norms Kit).... I will let you know when this beast purrrrrrrrsssssss. Anyone want to buy a 99 Cady Deville (new head gaskets, fresh paint)?

97Concours1 · #**104** (**permalink**) 02-09-08, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tateos

I contacted Rock Auto about the head bolt that snapped and he said it usually only happens if a bolt is overtightened, but he sent me a new set of bolts no charge and no questions asked; I thought that was pretty nice of them.

The more I think about it, I just think the "new" torque specs are too high. The original spec was 22 ft-lbs + 60 degrees + 60 degrees + 60 degrees. The new spec is 30 ft-lbs + 70 degrees + 60 degrees + 60 degrees. Also, the manual has two different specs in it. Under the list of torque specs in the front, it has 22'+60+60+60. Back in the Engine Mechanical section, it spells out 22'+60+60, with one less 60 degree pass. If you didn't look at the torque specs at the front of the book, this would be what you would torque to. I torqued mine to the "new" specs, but I was really uncomfortable on the last pass. I felt they were tight enough without the last pass, but I followed the specs and did it anyway. I had one bolt begin to fail (yeild), just as Tateos did. I left it in and so far it is ok, but I wish now that I had replaced it. If I ever do another one, I'm either going to completely drop the third 60 degree pass, or greatly shorten it.

STEVEHO · #**105** (**permalink**) 02-09-08, 11:01 AM

I've been following this project with great interest, even though it is way beyond my capabilities. I notice a good deal of worry about the final torque value of the head bolts. With a really good forum like this, isn't there someone with a direct connection to Cadillac engineering to get a positive answer and explaination for this very important final head bolt torque value?