97 Etc N* Head Gasket Project - Page 5

97Concours1 · #61 (**permalink**) 01-10-08, 08:27 PM

Use a Sharpie to mark your starting point on all the bolt heads after the (30 lb-ft torque) first pass is done. Mark a vertical line all the way down the side of the head bolt head, on to the washer, and then keep going down to the head. When you're done with the last pass, your marks should be rotated 190 degrees apart. This will be a little more than 1/2 a rotation as a ball park, which you then can easily verify from the marks.

Norm sent me some pictures of a test that he did on his inserts. He tightened a head bolt until it failed. I don't remember how far it went, but it was quite a ways. Give him a call if you have any questions.

tateos · #62 (**permalink**) 01-11-08, 02:24 PM

Excellent suggestion 97Concours1 - thanks!

zonie77 · #63 (**permalink**) 01-12-08, 12:21 AM

The mark is a good way to do it. If something were to happen and you get mixed up it is OK to loosen and retighten the bolts. It takes heat cycling to set the sealant on them.

tateos · #64 (**permalink**) 01-13-08, 08:50 PM

I finally got the block out of the cradle today. I had a hell of a time - there was a lot of corrosion around the rear/right dowel that didn't help, but I am embarrassed to admit the real problem was ME! Every car I ever worked on, at least as far as I can remember, had 3 flexplate to torque converter bolts. I thought I confirmed that was the case, but guess what - this car has 4! I ended up pulling the engine with the torque converter still attached to the engine with one bolt. I hope I didn't screw anything up on the input side on the trans - I will have to take a gander next weekend.

I have attached a photo of one of the old head bolts next to one of the Norms inserts - notice the difference between the diameter as well as the coarseness of the threads - I think the the difference is absolutely staggering! I used the old headbolts hand tightened into the inserts to yank the block and it was no problem at all. Since I needed the engine hoist to lift the block off the cradle today, I rested the body on jackstands under the bumper struts - basically in the same place I lifted the body from on top. it is a clear shot with no obstructions from below.

I still can't believe I missed that fourth bolt!

tateos · #65 (**permalink**) 01-21-08, 01:57 PM

Got the oil pan off and cleaned this weekend. It was dirty on the outside, but quite clean on the inside - no sign of any sludge whatsoever - just a light film of what I will call "soot" - like what you see on the oil pan of an auto trans. Put the new gasket on the pan, bolted in a new oil level sensor (changed it as a precautionary measure - cost only around $17) and bolted it back up.

I took the old rear main seal off the way the manual recommends - drilled a 1/8" hole and used a dent puller - worked like a dream! The new seal is a different design and requires a special Kent Moore tool to install - J45930-A. I ordered direct from the manufacturer SPX/OTC - the cost was $262.50 - kind of a lot, but the manual says the new design seal REQUIRES the tool and if you don't use it the rear main seal will be damaged and/or improperly installed. I must say. the tool worked beautifully. I just placed the seal on the tool and threaded two pilot bolts into the crankshaft flange, and then just turned the drive on the tool and the new seal was pressed onto both the crankshaft AND into the block at the same time. I guess you can do anything if you try hard enough, but I can't see why you would try to install this seal without the special tool - I would never want to gamble since the cost of failure is too high (remove engine again!).

The manual says not to reuse flywheel to crankshaft bolts, but I did not have new ones, so I did reuse them. I noticed that there was coating of what appeared to be RTV on the bolt threads, which made sense to me, since the other side of the flange is open to the crankcase and oil could leak by the threads if they weren't sealed. I cleaned the bolt threads and put some RTV on them and on the threaded holes on the flange - hopefully that will work.

I struggled a little with getting the engine back in the cradle and bolted to the trans, but it is back in now. I cleaned the left bank head bolt holes in the block and installed the inserts - the right bank comes next, followed by the heads.

Stay tuned!

97 STS · #66 (**permalink**) 01-22-08, 12:57 AM

dhm37, you mention Norms inserts. Where do you find them? I can only find the time serts?
Thanks, Bob

flyinlow · #67 (**permalink**) 01-22-08, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 STS

dhm37, you mention Norms inserts. Where do you find them? I can only find the time serts?
Thanks, Bob

I think these are the ones you are looking for http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NORTH...em150208578008

tateos · #68 (**permalink**) 01-22-08, 05:18 PM

The process with the Norms inserts is:

1. Drill out the hole until the bit stops at the bottom of the existing hole (the tip of the drill bit is ground to prevent drilling too deep.

2. Use the tap with the tapered end first and tap all the way to the bottom.

3 Use the bottoming tap all the way to the bottom, to form the threads on the portion of the hole that the tapered end tap only partially threaded.

I found that by following this process, the insert, when bottomed in the hole, would be a little deeper than the 1" to 1 1/4" maximum distance from the deck specified by the Norm's instructions.

AJ is correct that you are then relying on the Loctite to prevent the insert from turning when you torque down the cylinder head bolts. A drill stop as he suggests would be a good solution.

Since I had already drilled all the holes on one bank when I learned the above, I found that by using only the first tapered-end tap, the inserts would all stop at between 1" and 1 1/8" deep - perfect! This process actually saves a step, since the bottoming tap is never even used. All you have to do is use the first tap until it bottoms, remove the tap and blow out the cutting oil and chips, and then test fit the insert - if it is between 1 and 1 1/4 inches, you are done tapping.

dhm37 · #69 (**permalink**) 01-23-08, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 STS

dhm37, you mention Norms inserts. Where do you find them? I can only find the time serts?
Thanks, Bob

I called (or emailed) Norm and ordered them separately. I have my third set now, so far unused. They are a little less than $10 bucks apiece, as I remember.

97 STS · #70 (**permalink**) 01-25-08, 01:11 AM

dhm37, I found Norm on ebay.
Thanks,
And tateos, great thread. I'm getting ready to start this same project on the 97 STS. Lots on good info here. Gives me hope that I will be able to pull it off.
Thanks, Bob

tateos · #71 (**permalink**) 01-25-08, 10:25 PM

Yeah, Bob - the forum really does help give you the confidence to do this thing. Let me know if you get into it and get stuck and want to talk live - I'll send you my phone #. I am only a little more than 1/2 way through this thing, but I have learned SO much. Be sure to take note of the things I did WRONG, starting with trying to take the beast out from the top.

Loyal readers:

On the schedule for this weekend is re-installing the heads on the block. They are pretty dirty, so I am going to clean them by spraying them down with lots of WD-40 and then blowing them off and also coating the cams and lifters with assembly lube. I am also changing the steering rack in my car - maybe I will tackle that also, if I get ambitious. I am going to try to get a little extra done this weekend. Next weekend we drive to Las Vegas for a Super Bowl Party we were invited to at the Four Queens. Hoping to see the Pats go 19-0!

tateos · #72 (**permalink**) 01-28-08, 02:29 PM

Broke a head bolt over the weekend - more info to follow later today

tateos · #73 (**permalink**) 01-28-08, 04:55 PM

I have good news and bad news. The good news is the Norm's inserts are plenty stong. The bad news:

Over the weekend, I was torquing down the left bank cylinder head, and I got to the last 60 degrees and when I got to bolt 9, it suddenly started to get EASIER to turn. This was the first hole I had drilled and tapped, and when the insert was installed all the way to the bottom, it was a little deeper than it should have been. I installed the insert to the proper depth, but I thought maybe the loctite had let go when I was tightening the bolt and the insert was turning. I checked the torque on the rest of the bolts and they were around 80 ft pounds, so I decided to try turning bolt 9 until I reached 80 ft pounds, but the more I turned it, the EASIER it got to turn - until the bolt snapped!

I removed the other 9 bolts and the head and was eventually able to get the remainder of the head bolt out with an easy- out. I found that the insert had not turned at all - it was at the same depth as I had set it! I re-installed the head and inserted and tightened the other set of bolts - the ones I had bought for the right bank. This time everything went just fine.

I don't understand what went wrong... could it have been a defective bolt? I plan on ordering a new set of Fel-Pro bolts for the right bank - I got them from Rock Auto - $28.79 per bank

submariner409 · #74 (**permalink**) 01-28-08, 06:24 PM

Assuming the head bolts were new (never reuse head bolts, particularly torque-to-yield types) someone owes you a replacement set free.

tateos · #75 (**permalink**) 01-28-08, 09:14 PM

Yes - brandy new Fel-Pro bolts purchased from Rock Auto. Like I said, that was one that failed out of 20 - the other 19 worked fine. I will ask them what their return policy is, and I am planning to use a new set for the other bank - not re-use the ones that did not break. It was pretty scary until I got the broken part of the bolt out of the block - it was hard to drill, but came out really easily once I drilled it and inserted the easy-out.