P0420 Code - Page 4
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 96
Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, P0420 Code in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; PM sent, I can give you some information to review. I hope it will do some good, the SM may ...
  1. #46
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
    Automobile(s): none
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    WOODBRIDGE, VA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    11,062

    Re: P0420 Code

    PM sent, I can give you some information to review.
    I hope it will do some good, the SM may just be confused or there may be something we don't know.

  2. #47
    AJxtcman's Avatar
    AJxtcman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): The Northstar Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Rock Hill SC
    Age
    46
    Posts
    2,754

    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    PM sent, I can give you some information to review.
    I hope it will do some good, the SM may just be confused or there may be something we don't know.
    This is my story The Service Manager wasn't confused the Writer was!

    When I took Jodie down to the Charlotte area in May I stopped in at a Chey/Caddy dealer and talk with the Service Manager for about an hour. When I came out the truck was not running
    Jodie said it started dinging and died. OK I should have asked to use a Tech II, but I didn't
    The truck started and drove fine until 3 days before I left. It died out several time and it would not restart right away.
    I drove down to visit a friend and borrowed a scan tool in Columbia SC about 90 miles. The truck ran perfect. The DTC stored was for an ECM internal failure
    Jodie was staying with her boss and her husband, so they drove her to work and the truck sat.
    She used it a few weeks later to look for an apartment and it would only run for about 20 minutes She was calling me every time it stalled.
    Jodie needed to return to Wisconsin for 2 week in June for the oldest Graduation and her Graduation party and we didn't want to try to deal with the truck in the shop.
    The Monday after she got back she attempted to take it to the dealer. It didn't make it. It had to be towed.

    She had to sign for the Tow, Rental car, and Diagnostic time because the truck was now 2 days out of the 3/36 warranty.
    I told her to sign for it.

    I talked to the service writer and asked him to order a ECM and atleast get it coming.
    He said I don't think so.
    The tech determined that it had a bad battery and they replace it.
    yeah right. Jodie OKed the battery at our cost. Jodie told them to let the truck run after the battery was installed. We never had a Battery issue, but the 4 ways were on waiting for the tow truck
    Then they called back and said the truck wouldn't run any more and needed the ECM. It was going to be $XXXX more. I told her to tell them it was under warranty! She told the guy and he said NO. She asked to talk to the Service Manager (the one I talked to for an hour). She left a Voice Mail and he never returned the call, but the service writer did and he said that they would cover the ECM, the Tow, one day of rental and Good Will the Battery.

    The ECM had to be Special Ordered and it would be 3 to 4 days out. We would be responsible for the first day of rental and how ever many days until they got the PCM. Jodie Said OK. of course she was calling me constantly.

    The ECM showed up the next day. That is exactly when I said it would. They over nighted it.

    The service writer now left a message for Jodie that she just owed for the first day of rental.
    That is a bunch of BS. I do this for a living and that is BS.
    Jodie missed the message and actually picked up the truck the following night.
    We paid for 1 day of rental at $30 for returning it a day late.


    OK 8/80 emissions warranty will pay for rental cars, over night charges, Diagnostic time, the emission related parts covered, Parts needed to change that part, Hotels, and tows. Just like the bumper to bumper will cover.

    If you were out of town and your ECM fails on your trip at 79K. GM will pick up the tab including the Hotel. I am not sure how you would get reimbursed for the Hotel, but I have heard that GM will do that

    BTW a P0420 Labor Operation has additional time for Diagnostic

    Some one is double dipping That can get someone in trouble with the General

  3. #48
    90devilleguy's Avatar
    90devilleguy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2002 SLS & 1962 Coupe Deville
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Framingham,Ma
    Posts
    535

    Re: P0420 Code

    AJ-

    800-868-5664 ask for Peter the service manager, tell him all this and he will throw it right back in your face. I fought with him in person yesterday and he would not believe me even when i showed him the warranty except that i posted above!!!!

    I have a idea that will really hurt this guys reputation. I'm make some phone calls.....

  4. #49
    90devilleguy's Avatar
    90devilleguy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2002 SLS & 1962 Coupe Deville
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Framingham,Ma
    Posts
    535

    Re: P0420 Code

    OK Everyone, Here's the verdict on my claim to Cadillac Customer Service.

    They still find me responable for the diag fee.

    Reason why is because my car has 2 aftermarket mufflers on the back and they feel that this could be a cause for the problem. BS!!!!

    If you remember I told the dealership about the Bad Ign Coil problem i had 2 months before and they said to me that it was probably due to that.

    On my invoice it never says that they did the repair and replaced the cat as a means of goodwill even though i have aftermarket mufflers on the car.

    I think this is WRONG, I need to take this to the BBB now to deal with it.

    All for a whopping 110 bucks they have to be this f'n greedy.

    /Rant

  5. #50
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
    Automobile(s): none
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    WOODBRIDGE, VA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    11,062

    Re: P0420 Code

    Wow, sorry to hear they are being so stubborn.

  6. #51
    Ur7x is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 02 STS
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,262

    Re: P0420 Code

    sue the ba$tards!

  7. #52
    90devilleguy's Avatar
    90devilleguy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2002 SLS & 1962 Coupe Deville
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Framingham,Ma
    Posts
    535

    ROUND 2.....of this battle with GM

    So i had to speak with someone else at GM and now this person says that the dealership charged me the the Diag fee because of my aftermarket mufflers that i have on the car. They needed to verify that the cause for my PO420 code was not cause from the aftermarket mufflers. That it took longer then usual to verify and this is the reason why i get charged.

    Do i have any recourse????

  8. #53
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
    Automobile(s): none
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    WOODBRIDGE, VA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    11,062

    Re: P0420 Code

    Ask them why aftermarket mufflers would increase the difficulty of the diagnosis.
    The cat either works or it doesn't. They are hoping you won't be smart enough to realize that. (as much as I hate to say that.... and you didn't hear it from me)
    The catalyst monitor runs from two sensors, one before the cat and one after, what happens after that is meaningless.

  9. #54
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
    Automobile(s): 2002.5 F55 STS/65500mi, 2004 Ford F150 SuperCab4x4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    MD Eastern Shore - Kent Island
    Age
    74
    Posts
    44,593

    Re: P0420 Code

    If I'm not mistaken, some Cadillac dealerships actually install CORSA and BORLA aftermarket exhaust components.......I know that Fitzgerald Cadillac in Annapolis has a CORSA system for a CTS hanging up in the wheels-tires-chrome-wood section of the waiting service/showroom area. If the dealer itself installs the stuff, it sure doesn't sound like it voids any GM warranty. As ewill3rd opined, cat changes, yes. Catback changes, no. The reason this dealer is hassling YOU is because THEY didn't install YOUR mufflers.

  10. #55
    Ur7x is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 02 STS
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,262

    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    Ask them why aftermarket mufflers would increase the difficulty of the diagnosis.
    The cat either works or it doesn't. They are hoping you won't be smart enough to realize that. (as much as I hate to say that.... and you didn't hear it from me)
    The catalyst monitor runs from two sensors, one before the cat and one after, what happens after that is meaningless.
    Amen. As I understand the test for a bad cat, they remove the front O2 sensor, replace it with a presure tester and they measure the result...

    I agree with you, it has NOTHING to do with a cat back system. This guy is taking one up the tail pipe.

  11. #56
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
    Automobile(s): none
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    WOODBRIDGE, VA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    11,062

    Re: P0420 Code

    We install Corsa cat-back systems and have never had a problem unless the cats themselves were swapped out, and even then...

    Actually a pressure tester would give you an indication that the cat is plugged, however that doesn't necessarily mean it would fail a P0420. Of course it makes sense that it would but...
    A partially plugged catalyst could still function but it may cause drivability issues, and a cat that fails a P0420 test may be as free flowing as a new one.
    Just to add a bit of gasoline to this fire....

    On a conventional O2 sensor system here is how I run a test on a converter to see if it is bad.
    I connect a scan tool, set up the display to show me the voltages for the pre-cat and post-cat sensors. I start the engine and run it until it achieves closed loop. The Tech 2 scan tool allows me to do a "live plot". Basically that means I can see a graphical representation of the display data rather than staring at numbers. Once in closed loop the pre-cat sensor value should be switching rich-lean-rich-lean and the post-cat sensor should be stable.
    That lets me know that the catalyst is processing the gases to maintain the emissions on the vehicle.
    If the post-cat sensor switches rich-lean-rich-lean on the display lagging the front center by the time it takes the gases to travel through the cat or from sensor to sensor I know the cat is bad.

    The diagnostic chart might take you down a longer path but that is what it boils down to. As you can imagine that process would take about 15 minutes. GM warranty pays 18 minutes for diagnosis and frankly these days with as many as I have seen the diagnosis for a P0420 boils down to it's mere existence. If the code is set, the cat is bad.
    There are so few factors (as I have stated before) that could actually cause a P0420 to set multiple times that it is amazing to me to think that an experienced tech would require more than reading the code and ordering the part.

    That being said, I hate to keep fueling this fire but I think it is terribly unprofessional that you are getting such a runaround over something that is so ignorant. No matter how much "ammunition" you have I don't think this dealer is going to budge, but I'd take this as a $100 lesson to not go back there. You might also caution the people you know.
    I hate to see a dealership digging themselves into a hole like that, particularly with the automotive market the way it is right now. I am all for them looking out for their tech and their bottom line but it is pretty dumb to do that at the expense of pissing off your customers and making them not want to ever come back.

    I have no issues doing a favor here and there for my customers (which can frustrate my boss sometimes ) to keep them happy because if they don't come back later, I don't get paid and I am out of a job.

  12. #57
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
    Automobile(s): none
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    WOODBRIDGE, VA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    11,062

    Re: P0420 Code

    Oh I forgot, to be fair, it seemed that your dealership did do some checking to be sure there were no external causes for the catalyst failure but in my experience the cause of the failure is usually chemical in nature, and long gone by the time the code actually fails. I'd almost let it go if they actually said they did all the testing to be sure the new cat would not go bad, but again they would have to tell you BEFORE the work was done that the charge would be there.

  13. #58
    90devilleguy's Avatar
    90devilleguy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2002 SLS & 1962 Coupe Deville
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Framingham,Ma
    Posts
    535

    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    Oh I forgot, to be fair, it seemed that your dealership did do some checking to be sure there were no external causes for the catalyst failure but in my experience the cause of the failure is usually chemical in nature, and long gone by the time the code actually fails. I'd almost let it go if they actually said they did all the testing to be sure the new cat would not go bad, but again they would have to tell you BEFORE the work was done that the charge would be there.
    If anything i'm just pissed because 3 people have told me 3 different reasons why there is a charge for the diag. I was told after they did the initial diag work that the cat would be covered under the emissions warranty but they were going to charge me the diag fee and i told them no way to the diag fee, why should i? And they never gave me a straight answer. They just said that they have to charge that, I looked right in the warranty book when on the phone and said what it was written about the diag fee being waived, the guy at the dealership was like well you can talk to the service manager then. The only final thing i said to the service manager is that i need my car back asap and to order the cat and i'll deal with GM then and let them know that you are screwing the customers. the SM didn't like that and said well if my field manager came in and saw that there were aftermarket mufflers on the car he would say no way to the warranty work...the SM then adds he's doing this out of goodwill......BS



    /rant

  14. #59
    Angus Young's Avatar
    Angus Young is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2 Cadillac STS 1SG W/NAV
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158

    Re: P0420 Code

    I have this code and its brother code P0430, dealer advised me today both cat's are bad, they tested and cleared the codez, I cleared the codes myself but they just wont go away, dealer wants 2 grand to replace them, I was wondering if headers are available for the 05 STS V8, if so then does anyone know how the O2 sensors fit on the headers? If headers are not an option, then where would be a good place to get a new pair? Rock doesnt carry them, and as I understand the cat's are a part of the exhaust manifold so the whole thing must be replaced. My warrenty for the emmissions has expired. Any alternative solutions??
    Thanxx

  15. #60
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
    Automobile(s): 2002.5 F55 STS/65500mi, 2004 Ford F150 SuperCab4x4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    MD Eastern Shore - Kent Island
    Age
    74
    Posts
    44,593

    Re: P0420 Code

    Angus, This is in the wrong Forum: You need to go up to the 2005+ STS threads up ^^^ there.

    (When you get situated, click on your username and update your profile and personal info so that your car, model, year is reflected in your heading, like mine ^^^.)

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting