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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, P0420 Code in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Salvaging the rest of a rusty system is IFFY. Chances are they will not try and require the rest to ...
  1. #31
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Salvaging the rest of a rusty system is IFFY. Chances are they will not try and require the rest to be replaced. You can see what they say based on the condition.

  2. #32
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    see this is a small problem.....I have aftermarket mufflers installed on this car. If they replace the whole exhaust then they better give me those back.

  3. #33
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: P0420 Code

    The GM part number for a replacement exhaust system for a 2002 STS is for the whole thing.........cat to tips. Close to $1500 now, MSRP. All one piece, and the shipping is incredible......

  4. #34
    Ur7x is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by 90devilleguy View Post
    I just was looking on GM Parts Direct and they list that for the cat converter and the rest of the exhaust behind it is sold as a kit for 1200 bucks?????

    If the dealer has to replace the cat can they just replace the cat or do they have to replace the entire exhaust system????
    2002 was a VERY bad year at GM for cats LOTS of failure across ALL car lines ... ONE TSB after another on this issue...

    My 2002 STS had the cat die at 70,000 miles while still on the Federal warranty... The GM replacement cat is not a "complete" unit... It is a cut and clamp replacement. Nice

    If you have a P0420 code and you have 2002 GM anything you have a bad cat. Ask your parts guy for the TSB replacement part for your car if you must have OEM (expect ~500-800) for just the cat... Cut and clamp.

    If mine were to fail off warranty it would be in line for an aftermarket one... "quality" "factory fit" aftermarket cats go for 80-160.. You can replace that cat about 5-10 time... I'm sure that GM has fixed the issues with the 2002 cats.. but I'm still nervous about mine and it hangs down about 2" lower then the "original" one.

  5. #35
    AJxtcman's Avatar
    AJxtcman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Important:

    DO NOT REPLACE the following complete exhaust systems when replacing the catalytic converter.
    • 25727006

    • 88959335

    • 88959334

    • 25727009

    • 25709529

    Ensure the catalytic converter heat shield is upward. The "honeycomb" side faces downward.

    New catalytic converter, P/N 25755681
    GM LIST: $470.61

    New exhaust seal, P/N 03544534

    Nuts, P/N 11517031

  6. #36
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    AJ- your basically saying that they don't need to replace all the components?

    Ur7x- do you have access to the TSBs regarding this issue?

    Let me know please. In case i need ammo for the dealership.

  7. #37
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Looks like it's the Cat.

    Stealership is going to replace the Cat but they are trying to charge me the Diagnostics fee. I'm fighting it. I called Caddy Customer Service and hopefully they can work it out with the stealership.

  8. #38
    derone is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: P0420 Code

    [QUOTE=AJxtcman;1623123]Important:
    New catalytic converter, P/N 25755681
    GM LIST: $470.61




    That part has been replaced by a new part number.
    GM PART # 19152013
    CATEGORY: Catalytic Converter
    GM LIST: $924.02

  9. #39
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    [quote=derone;1623780]
    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    Important:
    New catalytic converter, P/N 25755681
    GM LIST: $470.61




    That part has been replaced by a new part number.
    GM PART # 19152013
    CATEGORY: Catalytic Converter
    GM LIST: $924.02

    Wow i'm glad i don't have to pay that!!!!!

  10. #40
    Ur7x is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by 90devilleguy View Post
    Looks like it's the Cat.

    Stealership is going to replace the Cat but they are trying to charge me the Diagnostics fee. I'm fighting it. I called Caddy Customer Service and hopefully they can work it out with the stealership.

    It is ALL covered under the waranty... including the diagnostic fee

    TSB:
    Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, Reduced Vehicle Power/Acceleration/Speed, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0420 (Diagnosis and Replace Catalytic Converter) #03-06-04-028 - (May 15, 2003)

    Service Engine Soon (SES) Light on, Reduced Vehicle Power/Acceleration/Speed, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0420 (Diagnosis and Replace Catalytic Converter)
    2002-2003 Cadillac DeVille, Seville
    Condition

    Some customers may comment of the SES light on and/or possible reduced vehicle power, acceleration and reduced top speed. DTC P0420 may be set.
    Cause

    The catalytic converter efficiency may be too low and/or restricted.
    Correction


    Follow the service procedure below for catalytic converter diagnosis and replacement .
    1. <LI type=1>For diagnostic information, refer to DTC P0420 SI Document ID #792317 <LI type=1>Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle SI Document ID #377101.
      Caution

      • In order to avoid being burned, do not service the exhaust system while it is still hot. Service the system when it is cool.
      • Always wear protective goggles and gloves when removing exhaust parts as falling rust and sharp edges from worn exhaust components could result in serious personal injury.

      <LI type=1>Support the exhaust system near the resonator with a suitable adjustable jack.
      <LI type=1>Remove the 4 nuts securing the catalytic converter to the rear exhaust manifold pipe.
      <LI type=1>Remove the 2 bolts securing the center exhaust hangers to the rear suspension support brackets. <LI type=1>Remove the catalytic converter from the rear exhaust manifold pipe. <LI type=1>Remove the catalytic converter gasket and discard the gasket.
      Important

      Use care not to overextend the heated oxygen sensor pigtail.

      <LI type=1>Lower the exhaust system with the adjustable jack to allow clearance for the cut-off tool.

      Important

      Ensure the cut is made on the catalytic converter side of the pipe.

      <LI type=1>Cut (2) the catalytic converter (3) from the resonator inlet pipe (1) ahead of the step but as close to the step as the tool will permit. <LI type=1>Remove and properly discard the catalytic converter.
      Important

      1. <LI type=a>DO NOT REPLACE the following complete exhaust systems when replacing the catalytic converter.
        • 25727006
        • 88959335
        • 88959334
        • 25727009
        • 25709529
      2. Ensure the catalytic converter heat shield is upward. The "honeycomb" side faces downward.


      <LI type=1>Slide the new catalytic converter, P/N 25755681, onto the resonator inlet pipe until it is fully seated against the heated oxygen sensor boss. <LI type=1>Install a new exhaust seal, P/N 03544534, on the four studs. <LI type=1>Install the converter onto the rear exhaust manifold pipe. <LI type=1>Install the four nuts securing the catalytic converter to the rear exhaust manifold pipe. <LI type=1>Install the 2 bolts securing the center exhaust hangers to the rear suspension support brackets. Tighten
      1. <LI type=a>Tighten the catalytic converter nuts in a crisscross pattern to 25 Nm (18 lb ft).
      2. Tighten the center exhaust hanger bolts to 30 Nm (22 lb ft).
      Important

      Ensure the catalytic converter outlet pipe is fully seated against the heated oxygen sensor boss.

      <LI type=1>Install two exhaust clamps, P/N 15992529, on the converter pipe with the two clamp ends 180 degrees from each other. Each set of clamp nuts should face opposite directions for proper sealing. Tighten Tighten the service clamp nuts to 30 N·m(22 lb ft),
      <LI type=1>Remove the adjustable jack stand.
    2. Lower the vehicle and inspect for exhaust leaks.
    Parts Information

    Part Number
    Description
    Qty
    25755681
    Catalytic Converter
    1
    11517031
    Nut (Only Order As Needed)
    4
    03544534
    Gasket, Catalytic Converter
    1
    15992529
    Clamp
    2

    Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
    Warranty Information

    For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
    Labor Operation
    Description
    Labor Time
    L2300
    Catalytic Converter Replacement
    0.5 hr
    Add A
    Diagnosis Time
    0.0 -- 0.3 hr

  11. #41
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Thanks for the TSB info.

    This dealership is stupid.....i am going to have to show them where in the warranty manual it's specified that diagnostics are covered!!!!

  12. #42
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    They are not stupid. They know what is covered and what isn't. They're hoping you don't.

  13. #43
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: P0420 Code

    If the car is under 8/80 it should be covered, diagnosis and replacement.
    If you called Cadillac Customer Care they should take care of it for you. Not sure why they are trying to pull this on you.

  14. #44
    Ur7x is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: P0420 Code

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    If the car is under 8/80 it should be covered, diagnosis and replacement.
    If you called Cadillac Customer Care they should take care of it for you. Not sure why they are trying to pull this on you.
    My dealer tried this with me too... This tactic is NOT uncommon... I refused to pay and threatened to complain to GM HQ... The service manager, reversed the charge.

  15. #45
    90devilleguy's Avatar
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    Re: P0420 Code

    well that's it i'm finished with gm. The service manager would not reverse the charge for the diagnostics fee. He said because the car is not under the orginial warranty that i am responsible for the diag fees.

    I am so pissed right now. I paid it anyways, so hopefully once i here back from Cadillac Customer Service they will do something about this.

    Hopefully i am not screwed cause i paid for the diag fee so i could get my car back.

    from the manual!!!!!

    Your Rights and Obligations (For Vehicles Subject to
    California Exhaust Emission Standards)
    The California Air Resources Board and General Motors
    are pleased to explain the emission control system
    warranty on your 2002 vehicle. In California, new
    motor vehicles must be designed, equipped, and built
    to meet the states’ stringent anti-smog standards. GM
    must warrant your vehicle’s emission control system
    for the periods of time and mileage listed provided there
    has been no abuse, neglect, or improper maintenance of
    your vehicle. Your vehicle’s emission control system
    may include parts such as the fuel injection system,
    ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine
    computer. Also included are hoses, belts, connectors,
    and other emission related assemblies.
    Where a warrantable condition exists, GM will repair
    your vehicle at no cost to you including diagnosis,
    parts and labor.

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