2000 DTS - correct replacement engine ?
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, 2000 DTS - correct replacement engine ? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Im a little confused on which engine I should be looking for, for a 2000 DTS. I understand I should ...
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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    2000 DTS - correct replacement engine ?

    Im a little confused on which engine I should be looking for, for a 2000 DTS. I understand I should mainly be looking for a 2000-2003 engine. But, Do I need to get one out of a DTS or can it be any deville/Seville? I understand the dts has slightly more HP than the deville and I am not sure what is changed to obtain that. I received the car with the engine already removed so I do not have any engine parts, I am looking to get a complete used engine for it.

    As far as I know it has the original transmission for the DTS which I understand has a different gear ratio. Is there any way to be sure its the DTS transmission?

    Also how does on tell if the engine is originally out of a deville or a dts? I would be more interested in finding a dts engine if there are changes to it over the deville engine.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is online now Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    There is VIN Y (275 HP/3.11 final drive ratio), and Vin 9 (300HP/3.71 final drive ratio).

    The differences are the intake cams, PCM tuning, and if course the differential in the transaxle.

    VIN Y cars of your year range: Base Deville, DHS, DES, SLS, ESC.

    VIN 9 cars of your year range: DTS, STS, ETC.

    There's a thread somewhere on how to decide the code on the block into the VIN, and you can then tell which engine you have.

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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    Quote Originally Posted by MoistCabbage View Post
    There is VIN Y (275 HP/3.11 final drive ratio), and Vin 9 (300HP/3.71 final drive ratio).

    The differences are the intake cams, PCM tuning, and if course the differential in the transaxle.

    VIN Y cars of your year range: Base Deville, DHS, DES, SLS, ESC.

    VIN 9 cars of your year range: DTS, STS, ETC.

    There's a thread somewhere on how to decide the code on the block into the VIN, and you can then tell which engine you have.
    I don't currently have any engine for it. Im just trying to get info so I can find the right one for it. With the info you have given me it looks like I would be best off getting a vin 9 engine for the car since it has the vin 9 transmission and pcm.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Yeah. Mix and match, and it will still run and drive, but not correctly.

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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    Its going to be hard to find an engine for this car that is not already blown up or "fixed" by somebody else.. I may have to search all the salvage yards for one.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    What makes you think all the used engines are "blown up"?? Mechanically, other than oil leaks and the blown out of proportion HG issue, Northstars are VERY durable engines.

    You should stud/insert any used engine you but anyway. No way to tell if there's an issue until it's in the car and running.

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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    Well maybe "blow up" was not the correct wording.. But that is exactly what I have heard about the engines.

    The plan was to use studs on any engine that I buy. I just want one that has not already failed or that has already been worked on by somebody else.

    If the head gaskets fail does it more than likely ruin the engine or are these easily fixed? What if they failed and the person kept driving it?

    What are the issues with the oil leaks on the 2000+ models? I read something about the pre 2000 ones having oil leaking problems. I want to fix all the stuff right, before I put the engine in.

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    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    MC, just out of curiosity... what's a DES?



    and westman,

    repairing the engine (studs or bigserts/normserts) is basically a must in your type of situation unless you want to chance that your swapped engine is okay and possibly have to pull it later to repair if it does have issues (oil leaks or hg issues)

    it sounds like you're not wanting to take that risk and have chosen studs as your preferred repair so that's out of the way

    the question you seem to have is if it's just as good to stud an engine that has had hg issues or if it's better to stud an engine that hasn't had issues
    the answer there is that it shouldn't matter either way
    you're going to basically rebuild the engine and even upgrade it with studs so either way it will be in the best condition possible

    now to address the oil leaks --- 2000-2005 years are almost just as bad as the pre-2000 northstars for leaking/seeping oil out the lower block seals
    most of these northstars do seep some oil and normal seepage won't even register as any oil loss
    seepage can get worse and develop into a leak that will prompt oil to be added between oil changes (by the oil level sensor)

    my personal dividing line between seepage and leak is that a leak will leave at least one drop of oil on your driveway overnight (or maybe over the course of a few days) while seepage will never drip down

    either way if you're going to stud the engine and have it out for overhaul/rebuild anyway why not reseal the bottom end?
    that's kind of how i look at it... either you just put the salvage engine in and pray it doesn't have any major issues or you do a overhaul/rebuild and stud or insert it and reseal the bottom end and know that you've got a great engine in great shape

    hope that helps and doesn't confuse you any
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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    Yes the plan is to stud the block no matter what. I am no going to waste money on an engine that I know is going to eventually go out on me, when I know I can fix it right before it even goes into the car. So yes the stud part is out of the way.

    What exactly should I be replacing to "reseal the bottom end" and any other leaks. is the rear main seal a problem on these?

    Are there any other things I should look into replacing while its apart or is it going to be a solid engine after I stud it and fix the oil leaks?

    I was first looking for any 2000+ northstar engine but now I see that I would be much better off with a vin 9 engine from an sts or dts, so this is going to be even harder than I thought to find a good engine.

    I want to fix all the known problems before it goes into the car. I do not want to have to pull the engine back out soon after putting it in.

    One other thing I was kinda of curious about is if there is a headgasket failure does it more than likely ruin the engine? Like take out the bottom end/bearings or anything of that sort? I plan to buy one that is still running good so I know its a good engine, and I will put the studs in it no matter what.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept
    MC, just out of curiosity... what's a DES?
    Deville Executive Sedan. Slightly longer than the other models (6" IIRC), more rear leg room. RARE.




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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    ah, yes the livery/limo Devilles... I forgot they had DES emblems on the shorties

    and for westman... the lower end seals you will need to replace are pretty much everything

    oil pan is rtv
    rtv is also used between the upper block and lower block and also on the oil baffle/plate/manifold
    also some use of anerobic sealer is suggested on the manifold as well
    there's also a plate/gasket for the oil filter housing between the block and the housing
    the rear main seal
    the front timing cover gasket (front crank seal is not needed to be replaced usually and it's part of the cover anyway)
    the water pump cross-over housing has four cross-over gaskets

    when we do these jobs we also put in a new oil level sensor and oil pressure sensor

    there's quite a few threads with more detail on actually doing the job if you look for them (in this sub forum)
    those threads will probably deal with doing a headgasket job primarily and also doing the lower block seals (also known as the crank case half seal or something like that)

    edit, i'm mixing parts for the headgasket job in ... front cover and cross-over gaskets are part of the headgasket job not the lower block seal job
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    westman995 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Swaps - What years are interchangeable and the differences

    I assume this is all small enough stuff to get separate instead of getting a full gasket set, correct?

    Does anybody have a pic or a link to a diagram for the 2000+ northstar.. Since the engine was removed before I got it I have no idea where everything mounts and any extra brackets. I am familiar with a 1998 sts as I just put a motor in one and I assume this is very similar but I would imagine its not entirely the same. I know there are lots of brackets on the motor/transmission

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    Re: 2000 DTS - replacement engine ?

    New thread created for westman995 and his DTS engine questions.

    You might want to look through the parts diagrams for your car/engine in www.gmpartsgiant.com - make, model, year, system, subsystem - that opens a numbered text page. The INFO tab opens a parts diagram keyed to the text page. Nalley also has a site with exploded parts diagrams.

    Use the stickys as primary reference works, not as ongoing discussions for one problem/car/engine. Thanks.

  15. #14
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Major external differences will mainly be with the ignition system and intake ducting. Everything should be familiar to you.

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    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    I assume u have a bad motor now? Or is motor gone? Like in missing? When u say u don't have any motor now, I assume u mean u don't have the replacement yet.

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