North star motor swap
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, North star motor swap in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Here's my problem I'm currently swapping a northstar V8 into a 90 Chevy Beretta. I've already modified the front end ...
  1. #1
    epanightmare is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    North star motor swap

    Here's my problem I'm currently swapping a northstar V8 into a 90 Chevy Beretta. I've already modified the front end of the car to accept the motor by moving the front frame rails over 1.75 inch on both sides to make the engine bay wider, notching the strut towers, welding in a strut tower brace that extends to both strut towers and the fire wall, moving the radiator, welding in a forward brace to bolt the stock torque strut motor mounts to, reinforcing the front end and making provisions to bolt up the engine cradle from a Cadillac Seville. I'm still working lower control arm and axels but I'll get to that later. I'm using engine, complete engine wiring harness, PCM, alternator, power steering pump ac compressor, all the sensors, and the engine cradle from a 94 Cadillac Seville SLS vin#Y. My question is what to do with some of the wiring. I'm trying to spice the caddy harness into the beretta chassie harness. The to main connectors that run from the engine harness to the chassie are connectors numbers C101 and C203.I have chassie end of these connectors as well. I've know what to do with most of the wiring but some of it i'm still confusued about. Qustion one is will this pcm set a code if it can't send an output signal to the RSS module through pin 3F11 on connector 3E/3F(blue PCM connector). There is also a vehicle speed out put to the rss module through pin 1B12 on connector 1A/1B (red PCM connctor).can this be disconnected? Question two, there is also a U.A.R.T data line that runs from pin 2C12 and 2C13 on connector 2C/2D (white PCM connector) to pin Y on C203,circuit 800. Is this only for pulling code using the onboard diognostics through the climate controls or dose it have another purpose, will it set a code if I don't connect it Question three. .dose Gm offer any calibrations that might work for this setup. I have a vetronics 5100 mastertech scaner with a a GM SPS programing card so flashing the PCM is not a problem. I want to use a 5speed out of a 3.1 V6 cavilier. It will bolt up to the northstar with a some modification to the upper bellhousing to clear the starter because both use the 60 degree gm bellhousing patturn. I sent an e-mail to the guys at Cadillac Hotrod Fabricators ( www.chrfab.com ) and they told me that they have a flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch that will work with this setup.
    Also dose anyone make an aftermarket computer that might work for this setup.

    thanks in advance for any help
    I hope to have pictures up soon

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  3. #2
    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 94 ETC,97 STS
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    I am impressed!!!!

    Sorry I can't help you with the wiring, you really need the factory manual.

    What is the difference in track between the Beretta and the Caddy?

  4. #3
    foo
    foo is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    OmG!! hehe.. i can't believe u are putting it in that car.. isn't it like 1000 lbs lighter than the SLS It will FLlllllllyyyyyyy
    I could help if i was there but something like this I can't even begin to picture it over the internet

  5. #4
    customGTP is offline PLEASE UPDATE YOUR HOTMAIL EMAIL ADDRESS. IT NEVER STOPS BOUNCING.
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    Mmmmmmmmmmm N* power

    I love to see your ambition!! I know we will become good friends and swap a lot of info as soon as you hear my project outline! lol

    A rear wheeled POSI 10 bolt 8.5 in. Buick GN turbo, powered by a 93-96 Northstar in my already custom 5 speed 1994 Pontiac Grand Prix (they didnt make my 94 in a 5 speed)

    My grandpa has worked for a local Caddy dealer for close to 50 years, so I grew up with Caddy's. He's owned 34 cadillacs so far in his lifetime (and counting)

    The reason I chose this motor for my swap is, because it is a smooth sophisticated low hoodlined motor. I chose the Grand National rear end because of the torque it can withhold. The front suspension I was thinking of using was a 93-01 Firebird, so that I get my RWD configuration. The suspension travel is 2" less than my GP so my car will be 2" lowered in front with a stock F-body front end.

    http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm said that a stick shift Camaro/Firebird bellhousing will bolt right up.

    I am still debating on a transmission but leaning toward a Tremec 3550, Tremec 3650 or 6-speed T-56.

    Does anyone have any links to mustle car transmissions specifications?

    Thank you for reading and/or responding everyone,
    Travis U.
    Milwaukee, WI

  6. #5
    customGTP is offline PLEASE UPDATE YOUR HOTMAIL EMAIL ADDRESS. IT NEVER STOPS BOUNCING.
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    Talking

    now for your help request......

    GM does not have anything for this. The performance guys barely have anything for this unless you go with the Comander 950 stand alone computer system ($1300 from chrfab.com). There is a guy that I know of in MI I believe, that does do N* PCM reprogramming for 93-96 computers. He only has a 275HP (Vin Y) configurations set right now. He cant get the 300HP correct yet (as of 3 months ago so you never know). One more thing to add about the computer this guy reprograms is that it is ENGINE MANAGEMENT ONLY, meaning no ABS, no PassKey or PassKey II, no nothing, engine only.

    On to the transmission. Your tranny will bolt up to that bolt pattern. BUT your Getrag HM-282 is only rated for a 200something Torque. I have a HM-284 (stock in 91-93 3.4L DOHC Grand Prix's) in my 1994 Grand Prix GTP www.cardomain.com/id/soccrplayrgtp if are interested in takin a look. I am currently beating the shit out of my Getrag 284/ 3.4L DOHC 210HP and the tranny is not doing so well. They MAY be rated up to 400lbs TQ but there is no documentation I've found yet. Just hear say. So until then I'm sticking with 280lbs/tq which I can tell

    Travis

  7. #6
    customGTP is offline PLEASE UPDATE YOUR HOTMAIL EMAIL ADDRESS. IT NEVER STOPS BOUNCING.
    Automobile(s): 94 GTP RWD N*
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    hello?

  8. #7
    speedyguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: North star motor swap

    Quote Originally Posted by customGTP
    hello?
    The 4t60-e/ 4t65-e can handle the N* quite well and the obd1 computer can also be done quite easily. The obd2 caddy computer can be reprogrammed and the Aurora obd2 is also coming along. Yes including VATs and all.

    I hear the 4t80-e takes on the N* like it was meant to fit. I guess there was no room? lol


    The 4t60-e can take on 400lbs of torque and 600hp is not an issue with a properly built bulletproof unit.

    You can also get a limited slip for all of the above.

    For motor mounts try adding limiters that kick in at 3/4 load on the mounts.


    Ty

  9. #8
    customGTP is offline PLEASE UPDATE YOUR HOTMAIL EMAIL ADDRESS. IT NEVER STOPS BOUNCING.
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    hey Ty did you get my phone message? lol

    How much is it for you guys to reprogram a OBDI PCM??
    VATS PASSKEY AND ALL? not only engine management? Tell me more Ty!!!

  10. #9
    speedyguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: North star motor swap

    Quote Originally Posted by customGTP
    hey Ty did you get my phone message? lol

    How much is it for you guys to reprogram a OBDI PCM??
    VATS PASSKEY AND ALL? not only engine management? Tell me more Ty!!!
    No did not get the phone message. When did you send it? My secretary is slow... lol

    Now as for the rest I will take care of it privately and post other info properly I don’t want to pollute the forum.

    Ty

  11. #10
    epanightmare is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Thread Starter

    Re: North star motor swap

    Quote Originally Posted by customGTP
    now for your help request......

    GM does not have anything for this. The performance guys barely have anything for this unless you go with the Comander 950 stand alone computer system ($1300 from chrfab.com). There is a guy that I know of in MI I believe, that does do N* PCM reprogramming for 93-96 computers. He only has a 275HP (Vin Y) configurations set right now. He cant get the 300HP correct yet (as of 3 months ago so you never know). One more thing to add about the computer this guy reprograms is that it is ENGINE MANAGEMENT ONLY, meaning no ABS, no PassKey or PassKey II, no nothing, engine only.

    On to the transmission. Your tranny will bolt up to that bolt pattern. BUT your Getrag HM-282 is only rated for a 200something Torque. I have a HM-284 (stock in 91-93 3.4L DOHC Grand Prix's) in my 1994 Grand Prix GTP http://www.cardomain.com/id/soccrplayrgtp if are interested in takin a look. I am currently beating the shit out of my Getrag 284/ 3.4L DOHC 210HP and the tranny is not doing so well. They MAY be rated up to 400lbs TQ but there is no documentation I've found yet. Just hear say. So until then I'm sticking with 280lbs/tq which I can tell

    Travis
    thanks for the info i would have replied sooner but my computer decided it didn't want to work for the past week..:banghead2

    i checked out your site and i like your work it gave me a lot of ideas and insite on some potental problems i might have with my project

  12. #11
    epanightmare is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Thread Starter

    Re: Mmmmmmmmmmm N* power

    [QUOTE=customGTP]I love to see your ambition!! I know we will become good friends and swap a lot of info as soon as you hear my project outline! lol

    A rear wheeled POSI 10 bolt 8.5 in. Buick GN turbo, powered by a 93-96 Northstar in my already custom 5 speed 1994 Pontiac Grand Prix (they didnt make my 94 in a 5 speed)

    My grandpa has worked for a local Caddy dealer for close to 50 years, so I grew up with Caddy's. He's owned 34 cadillacs so far in his lifetime (and counting)

    The reason I chose this motor for my swap is, because it is a smooth sophisticated low hoodlined motor. I chose the Grand National rear end because of the torque it can withhold. The front suspension I was thinking of using was a 93-01 Firebird, so that I get my RWD configuration. The suspension travel is 2" less than my GP so my car will be 2" lowered in front with a stock F-body front end.

    http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm said that a stick shift Camaro/Firebird bellhousing will bolt right up.


    sounds like a cool project .I like to see some pictures of it when you get the car together good luck

  13. #12
    DeLorean_Northstar is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: North star motor swap

    hi
    I am currently In the process of dropping a 2001 Vin 9 Northstar into my '81 DeLorean. I too was puzzled by the wiring, but I found a guy in CA who will take the entire wiring harness and convert it to a 4 wire setup, meaning all you have to do is power 4 wires and your good to go. I cant say for sure if he does quality work or not, cause im still waiting on my harness to get back. if you want though, check out http://www.dynatechmotorsports.com . once I get my harness back I will let you know what I think.
    Good Luck with the conversion
    Tony

  14. #13
    ambrynmc is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: North star motor swap

    Interested in any help with a Northstar transplant, especially in the wiring and computer area. Does "Speedy" have the ability to reprogram the ECU? Also interested in the 4-wire harness, sounds nice and easy! Thanks

  15. #14
    customGTP is offline PLEASE UPDATE YOUR HOTMAIL EMAIL ADDRESS. IT NEVER STOPS BOUNCING.
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    Re: North star motor swap

    where are you located?? I can help with whatever I can

  16. #15
    ambrynmc is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: North star motor swap

    Quote Originally Posted by customGTP
    where are you located?? I can help with whatever I can
    I'm located in Monterey, CA area and I really need help with the chip part. I called Fastchip and they don't handle the Northstar anymore. I want to be able to have the engine standalone on the chip since I will not be using an automatic. Also, I called Dynatech about the wiring harness and it takes about 3 weeks and +/-$200 to modify your engine wiring harness. And I called McLeod's and they are getting ready to do a manufacturing run on a dual disc clutch and flywheel. If they get more orders for them, the price is supposed to be close to $650 (flywheel and all clutch parts). This will help with handling torque since the diameter is soo small (9 11/16"). McLeod is also making a modular bellhousing that can convert to all sorts of transmissions. Let me know about the chip! Thanks

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