Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I started the water pump housing thread a couple of days ago. Got my car back last night, drove it ...
  1. #1
    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Angry Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    I started the water pump housing thread a couple of days ago. Got my car back last night, drove it about 5 miles and all of a sudden it started running a little rough and smoke/steam is coming out of the exhaust. Is there something that the garage may have missed, scratched a gasket where the housing bolts on. I see on the old crossover there is an exhaust passage next to the coolant passage, could that be the problem or is it once again coincidence that something happened to break right after getting it back.

    Did a head gasket just fail? I'm beside myself, first they damage the crossover changing the water pump, change all that, I drive about 5 miles and all of a sudden it's running rough and has smoke coming out the exhaust, not a lot but nitceable.

    Do I add that Gold Bars leak and hope for the best. The garage is already saying it is nothing that they could have done. Opinions please, must leave for a couple of hours but should be back prior to 9PM.

    Very discouraged to say the least.

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  3. #2
    1996deVille is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Therodman,

    Having just done the water pump on my '96, I returned the gaskets that went unused. There are two that are unique in the set - they are about 1/4" thick with gasket/seal material around them. They are almost "stand-offs" and look very different from anything I've seen before. My guess is that these may be the set for the crossover... I didn't need to get as far into my motor as you have yours, my pump came out easily and went in the same. This location, however, dosen't get to the combustion chamber/s, so I don't think you'd be "burning" coolant if this set of gaskets failed.

    The material is the same as the gasket for the housing cover - a red rubber/silicone of some kind - and once it has been flattened, its job is done, it is no good for a second time! I didn't have to replace these...

    Maybe someone on the forum knows exactly where this set installs...? I'll tell you, once you begin to take this motor apart you have to replace every gasket/seal that's disturbed - there seems to be no exception to this!

    Good luck on this repair!

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Just got home and the car has sat for about 2 hours. I had a friend listen to it when I started it and he said, I smell a lot of gas, that's gas. It didn't smoke but a couple of quick rev's and it started smoking up a storm. The motor is also missing a bit, can't believe this is happening. When the garage changed the crosoverm they told me they had to take off the throttle bore/body, not sure exactly what they said but in a nutshell they said they had to take a lot of stuff off tht top of the engine to get at the crossover.

    After getting home and starting it again I'm not sure what it could be, I know I smell a lot of gas on me from the exhaust. I had just filed the car up and drove about 1/2 mile to a mile and then it started running bad, losing power and starting to smoke. Could I have gotten bad gas? I called the station and asked if anyone was complaining about the gas and they said call back in the morning when the manager is in but no, no complaints.

    What do I do now, afraid to drive the car, nothing tapping or knocking, never overheated?

  5. #4
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    It seems very coincidental and all but the fuel pressure regulator may have failed with all the activity around it and all....

    Take the perimeter row of screws out of the intake manifold top cover and remove it. Find the fuel pressure regulator at the throttle body end of the manifold...it is the canister shaped device on the fuel rail that has the fuel return line exiting from it. Have someone turn on the key with the intake top cover off and watch the vacuum port on the fuel pressure regulator for any sign of fuel seeping or spraying out...there should be none. Chances are this is the problem. Common source of a fuel leak inside the intake manifold on the earlier Northstars of that age. Do NOT crank or start the engine with the top cover off. Just turn on the key to energize the fuel pump to pressurize the system to check the FPR for leakage.

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    bbob thanks,

    Is the FPR near the EGR so I know what I'm looking for and the way I've explained the problem with the smoke and the gas smell you feel like that may be the problem?

    Would the repair shop have had to remove the FPR and reinstall or would it just be coincidence that it failed at the same time. The check engine light came on after I got the car back and it was a P036 so I removed the EGR which I see they had to take from the other crossover, cleaned it as per this forum and that fixed the check engine light. I drove the car about 3 miles and then rough running and smoke.

    I'll see if I can check the FPR, never had a cover off. Is it a big deal getting the cover off?

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    I have a code P119, an open or shorted fuel injector, is that why I'm blowing smoke and running rough? Could that have anything to do with the crossover that was changed?

    Opinions appreciated!!

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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Check the wiring harness coming from the intake manifold very carefully. Maybe the shop pinched the harness at one of the connections between the water crossover casting and the block/heads. That would cause an injector to stick wide open and set that code.... Seen this happen before when a trans was changed and the engine wiring harness was pinched/caught at the trans/block interface.

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    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Most of the things in that area were disturbed. Maybe the wiring got pinched (as BBob suggests) and maybe it's coincidence. I'd go with the wiring over an injector going bad. Look that area over carefully. What year?

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    It is a 94 STS with 71k miles. Would they have had to take the intake cover off to change the crossover housing. I took the cover off and it looks like there is a little bronze looking canister on top of what I would assume is the FPR. I've seen similar on GM V-6 engines, anyhow there is a small tube coming out from the top of that bronze diaphram that I believe should have a vaccum hose and there is nothing there.

    I'll check the wire harness that bbob mentioned.

    Zonie, when you say a wire over the injector, do you mean right above up. I didn't pull the plastic part just underneath the cover that looks as though it holds the injectors in place, anyhow, is that what you are talking about, the wires must run underneath the edge of that piece starting over by the crossover.= and then running towards the front of the engine, ( pass side is what I'm calling the front ).

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    bbob, your the man!! The wire harness was pinched exactly where you siad it was. There is a small outlet on the top of the crossover just above the pump, there was a spring type clamp on that hose ( maybe a 3/8" hose ) and the harness was pinched between that and the intake. All I did was turn the clamp around so I could pull the wire harness out of there, started up the car and BOOM, back in business, purring like a kitten.

    I drove the car home like that about 3-4 miles real easy, low rpm's. The oil doesn't seem to have moved at all ( more than before ) and doesn't smell like gas so do you think it should be okay to put a few miles on it before I get it changed? I have to go to the auto store in the morning, obviously and also the doctor. I know ideally I should change it right away but not possible without great difficulty.

    Thank You so much bbob, God Bless you for your generosity and willing to share your wealth of kknowledge with others on this board!!

    Also a thank you goes out to zonie who also was on the right track!

    I'll be sleeping much better tonight thanks to all of your help and taking your valuable time to be here!!

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    eldorado1 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Quote Originally Posted by therodman
    I drove the car home like that about 3-4 miles real easy, low rpm's. The oil doesn't seem to have moved at all ( more than before ) and doesn't smell like gas so do you think it should be okay to put a few miles on it before I get it changed? I have to go to the auto store in the morning, obviously and also the doctor. I know ideally I should change it right away but not possible without great difficulty.
    If it doesn't smell like gas, then it's probably okay.

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    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Congratulations on fixing it! And yes, the piece you mentioned does hold all the injectors and sensors in place. It shouldn't have been seperated from the intake when they worked on it but it might have been. As you found it was that cable but outside the intake.

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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    Glad that was the problem and it was an easy fix. Be sure and let the shop know what they did in a gently way. I would think that the oil is OK for as little as you drove it. Changing it won't hurt to be sure and get any fuel out of the crankcase that is left in there but a nice long drive to get the engine good and hot is probably just as good if it is not contaminated badly and doesn't smell like fuel.


    BTW....yes, the canister thing you described is the FPR. IT has a vacuum nipple on it that normally would have a vacuum hose on it if it was outside the intake manifold but since the FPR is inside the intake manifold on that application it sees manifold vacuum without a hose on it. So...there is a nipple, yes, but no vacuum hose. If the engine is running fine then the FPR is likely fine and you found the source of the extra fuel and misfiring.

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Talking Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    bbob, now you really made my day explaining why there is no vaccuum hose on the FPR, never would have put two and tow together. I just knew that somehow while changing the crossover, a small hose was either pulled off accidentally or was forgotten about.

    I had explained to the shop before they started that I used another shop a few months ago and how that turned out. The other shop took my car on a Saturday morning with a "strater disabled due to anti-theft system msg"). After calling around, this shop said they would have it going that same afternoon. I told them from reading this site that it was more than likely a wire in the ignition and that needed to be repaired, they agreed. Anyhow, they didn't get it fixed that day and finally on Monday night or Tuesday morning, I pick it up but the air bag light is on. It goes back the next day, full day and when I get it back, the steering wheel is crooked. They say it can only go on one way and I tell them I must be losing my mind because I just had it alligned a month earlier and I wouldn't walk away with a steering wheel that is sitting at 45 degrees. Anyhow, the wheel can go on in 2 positions because they got it right and the shop told me there was like 2 slots. That garage did everything at no cost.

    I explained that to this garage before they did the water pump, they said that'll never happen here. Turned out to they damaged the crossover having to be replaced and an injector problem that could have cost me an engine.

    I should have looked here in the first place and changed the water pump myself, so it goes.

    Thanks once again bbob and all.

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    therodman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crossover changed, now smoking anit-freeze?

    When I said the garage did everything at no cost in my previous post I meant the after repairs, like the air bag light and the crooked steering wheel. They did charge me like $250-$300 to replace the ignition, somewhere in there.

    Sure wish this other garage would have stood up to their workmanship which they should have. bbob, I will mention the wiring harness problem to them and of course in friendly manner.

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