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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Do not stud a Northstar in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I have been a GM trained Cadillac Tech since 2003. 6 years of that I was at a standalone Caddy ...
  1. #31
    AJxtcman's Avatar
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    I have been a GM trained Cadillac Tech since 2003. 6 years of that I was at a standalone Caddy dealer.

    I have misspoken here. The OE bolts are not Torque to Yeild. I have posted this on the forum many times since 2007. OE Northstar bolts are reusable per GM's documents, but you need to clean the bolts, reapply the threadlocker, and apply sealer to the washer to keep fluid out of the bolt holes.

    I have use the GM big serts 1 time and I have to plans on ever doing that again. I have used the NS300L inserts and feel they are the best choice.

  2. #32
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    FWIW ............

    Tim Carroll is a Northstar repair mechanic and operates a shop in Texas. He has a vested interest in engine studs.

    AJ is/was a Cadillac Tech who also does engine and PCM work on the side.

    Neither of these businessmen is currently an authorized vendor in CF, so plan your communications accordingly.


    ........ and here's a BIG quote from the 2002 GM/Cadillac service manual:

    Engine overhaul, cylinder head bolts ......... procedures -
    Left bank cylinder head ........ (italics mine)

    Removal:

    4. Remove and discard the ten M11 internal drive cylinder head bolts.

    Installation:

    2. Make sure any old thread sealant material is removed from the cylinder head bolt holes in the block (Is this the source of AJ's advice ?)

    5. Place the cylinder head on the deck face
    IMPORTANT: Do NOT reuse the old M11 cylinder head bolts......
    6. Install new M11 cylinder head bolts in the head."


    I have not found the TSB that reverses this procedure i.e. - Use the head bolts over again - and my TSB list dates back from 01/28/13.

  3. #33
    Carroll Cadillac is offline Banned
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Jim,

    You left out Tim has been an engineer for over 27years!
    Just a tad more then an average mega shop owner.

    I need to speak to you, I am going to Pm you,

  4. #34
    AJxtcman's Avatar
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    FWIW ............

    Tim Carroll is a Northstar repair mechanic and operates a shop in Texas. He has a vested interest in engine studs.

    AJ is/was a Cadillac Tech who also does engine and PCM work on the side.

    Neither of these businessmen is currently an authorized vendor in CF, so plan your communications accordingly.


    ........ and here's a BIG quote from the 2002 GM/Cadillac service manual:

    Engine overhaul, cylinder head bolts ......... procedures -
    Left bank cylinder head ........ (italics mine)

    Removal:

    4. Remove and discard the ten M11 internal drive cylinder head bolts.

    Installation:

    2. Make sure any old thread sealant material is removed from the cylinder head bolt holes in the block (Is this the source of AJ's advice ?)

    5. Place the cylinder head on the deck face
    IMPORTANT: Do NOT reuse the old M11 cylinder head bolts......
    6. Install new M11 cylinder head bolts in the head."


    I have not found the TSB that reverses this procedure i.e. - Use the head bolts over again - and my TSB list dates back from 01/28/13.
    You are correct and you need to go back to the original training manuals to find the information. The bolt part number did not change

    Now the Felpro and Engine tech bolts state that they are Torque to yield bolts.
    The OE bolts per GM are not Torque to Yield.

    I recommend replacing the bolts every time

  5. #35
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    People have been studding engines since the beginning of high performance building ( including aluminum block engines since 1990 in the old DOHC 349 Cubic Inch in the Corvette ZR-1). any time a real mechanic puts real horsepower in an engine one of the very first things done is studding.

    Tim i know our companies dont have the greatest terms but you have to agree that studs are the only way to go, especially in these northstars.

  6. #36
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    This is for the service manual and as you can see when a torque to yeild bolt is use GM calls it out

    Notice: Powdered metal connecting rods have rod bolts which yield when torqued. If the rod bolts are loosened or removed the rod bolts must be replaced. Rod bolts that are not replaced will not torque to the correct clamp load and can lead to serious engine damage.
    .
    .
    another time
     6. Remove the water pump pulley bolts.
    Caution: This vehicle is equipped with torque-to-yield or single use fasteners. Install a NEW torque-to-yield or single use fastener when installing this component. Failure to replace the torque-to-yield or single use fastener could cause damage to the vehicle or component.

    .
    .

    and another time

    Caution: This vehicle is equipped with torque-to-yield or single use fasteners. Install a NEW torque-to-yield or single use fastener when installing this component. Failure to replace the torque-to-yield or single use fastener could cause damage to the vehicle or component.

    Note: Front end alignment not required due to frame only being lowered and reinstalled.

    18. Install NEW frame-to-body bolts (1) and tighten to 110 Y (81 lb ft) + 90 degrees.

    .
    .

    and another one that I see very often whe chaning the water pump on a Cruze

     1. Install the engine mount bracket (2).
    Caution: Refer to Fastener Caution.

    Caution: Refer to Torque-to-Yield Fastener Caution.

     2. Install the 3 NEW engine mount bracket bolts (1) and tighten to  60 Y (45 lb ft) + 45–60°.

    and then another 3

     4. Install the 3 NEW engine mount to engine mount bracket bolts (3) and the 3 washers (4).
    Caution: Refer to Fastener Caution.

    Caution: Refer to Torque-to-Yield Fastener Caution.

     5. Tighten the 2 engine mount to body bolts (2) and the engine mount nut (1) to  62 Y (46 lb ft).
     6. Tighten the 3 engine mount to engine mount bracket bolts (3) to  50 Y (37 lb ft) + 60–70


    as you can see they all state Torque to Yield and the Northstar Head bolts do not

  7. #37
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    the thing i dont understand is why people drop the sub-frames on these vehicles, it is so much easier out the top! me alone takes about 4 hours, jakes best is little over 2 and together we have done it in under 2 hours, there is no risk of any alignment/ rusty body bolt issues that may occur.
    98eldo32v and 98eldo32v like this.

  8. #38
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    it takes 45 minutes to 1 hour to drop it out the bottum

    This is the R&R time for the cradle

    E1707 Frame, Engine - Complete - Replace
    Effective Date: May 1, 2013
    LABOR CODE: E1707
    Note: For alignment times, refer to labor code E2000/8070012 and add the applicable base time to base labor hours.
    Base LABOR TIME: 1.8

    J1000 Pan And/Or Gasket, Oil - Replace
    Effective Date: May 1, 2013
    LABOR CODE: J1000
    Note: For steering wheel angle and/or front toe adjustment times, refer to labor code E2000/8070012 and add the applicable base times to base labor hours.
    Base LABOR TIME: 4.5
    To Clean Parts On Vehicles Over 30,000 Miles/48,000 Kilometers ADD TIME: 0.1-0.3
    With SAI ADD TIME: 0.2



    J1190 Lower Crankcase Seal/Sealant Replacement
    Effective Date: May 1, 2013
    LABOR CODE: J1190
    Note: For alignment times, refer to labor code E2000/8070012 and add the applicable base time to base labor hours.
    Base LABOR TIME: 11.8
    To Recover and Recharge A/C System ADD TIME: 0.3


    J1840 Engine, Universal - Replace
    Effective Date: May 1, 2013
    LABOR CODE: J1840
    Note: For alignment times, refer to labor code E2000/8070012 and add the applicable base time to base labor hours.
    Note: Goodwrench Engine.
    Base LABOR TIME: 10.7

    ----------

    This is remove the old damaged cradle and transfer part to a new cradle and then reinstall it
    E1707 Frame, Engine - Complete - Replace
    Effective Date: May 1, 2013
    LABOR CODE: E1707
    Note: For alignment times, refer to labor code E2000/8070012 and add the applicable base time to base labor hours.
    Base LABOR TIME: 1.8

  9. #39
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    but these cars are not new anymore, alot have rust!, what happens when the nuts from the sub frame bolts spin inside the body? there goes at least 2-4 hours of your time.

    ----------

    the entire job takes us about 16 Hours,remove, clean and re-seal, with drilling and tapping installing studs, and re-assembly of the engine, and re-install.

  10. #40
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by 04GrandAmGT View Post
    but these cars are not new anymore, alot have rust!, what happens when the nuts from the sub frame bolts spin inside the body?
    oh god... I'm not alone! Someone else has experienced it! I had this happen to me one time - it was a real treat. The cage around the captive nut pretty much disappeared as soon as the bolt was turned. I fear this every time I touch a fwd GM subframe now, though it hasn't happened again.

  11. #41
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    with how rusty cars get especially the north eastern USA and Canada is really bad for it, and taking it through the top is so much faster its not even funny
    98eldo32v and 98eldo32v like this.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04GrandAmGT View Post
    with how rusty cars get especially the north eastern USA and Canada is really bad for it, and taking it through the top is so much faster its not even funny
    CCC pulls em out the top also

  13. #43
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Yes I do agree! If we agree on one thing it is this, there is no other repair beside studs, and if anyone believes otherwise then they have an extreme lack of
    knowledge of the Northstar.

  14. #44
    Speedygman is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Very well said.

  15. #45
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    Re: Do not stud a Northstar

    Northstar Engine Mechanical System 16014.11.1 dated 1993 does not state that you need to replace the head bolts or the rod bolts.
    I have version 16014.11.2 at home. I will look at that copy.

    I do not see an advatage to studs over the NL300 inserts. The inserts use the OE bolts.

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