Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job - Page 2
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I agree. I the threads are definitely a problem when the bolts are removed, but the pictures always show a ...
  1. #16
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    I agree. I the threads are definitely a problem when the bolts are removed, but the pictures always show a deteriorated gasket, never one in decent shape - even in well maintained cars. Mighty coincidental. It seems everyone overlooks the condition of the gaskets because they've conditioned themselves to ignore everything but the block threads.

    Anyone have a link to a thread where pictures were shown with coolant leaking by a healthy gasket, indicating a ONLY a clamping problem?

    Inferior gaskets would also explain why bolt length and thread pitch changes never really solved the problem. 2000+ cases sure seem to be gaining a lot of ground as they enter the "sweet spot" age.

  2. #17
    MRneatfreak- is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    I'm still drilling and tapping 2 down 18 to go. And had fun removing the alignment pins with my friend.

    I thought I read somewhere about going 60 degrees farther as indicated on the special torque gauge when torqueing the nuts on the studs? Not just the three passes? Maybe that was for someother part of then engine?

    I see Jake put up a new video on his original website detailing the proper use of the jig.

    I had two bolts on the top row that definitely failed for Cyl's #1 and #3. The others seemed gut and tight. So like you guys were saying maybe it is a gasket problem if the bolts hadn't failed.

  3. #18
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    No, I'm saying the gasket failed first, leaking coolant into the bolt threads, causing electrolysis, thus corroding the threads until they eventually fail.

  4. #19
    MRneatfreak- is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Yeah that's what I meant to say. Can't think right after working all day at day job .

    My shouldered jig alignment bolts are warped, so when I am tightening them in I see the jig shifting up and down, adds another 3 steps to make sure the jig is straight with the cutting and drilling holes. What a PIA. Now I feel the pain Mr. Buttermore had when I rented him the jig.

  5. #20
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    No, I'm saying the gasket failed first, leaking coolant into the bolt threads, causing electrolysis, thus corroding the threads until they eventually fail.
    Electrolysis, huh? Are all of these head gaskets rotted because the gasket is acting as an anode? I've never seen so many engines of one type opened up to see identical looking nasty head gaskets = and many members here seem to be good about fluid intervals.

  6. #21
    MRneatfreak- is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Well something is definitely astray with the jig alignment bolts, its to the point where I can't get the hole on the deck to line up with the jig when i tighten the two alignmetn bots down. What a mess. We tapped two of the deck holes free hand earlier using the old head bolts with them installed as a reference. But that is so easy to fall into the pit with that method.

    Thats what I get for buying a used jig kit.

    U suppose a machine shop would have these shouldered jig bolts? Or could make them within a day?

  7. #22
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by drewsdeville View Post
    Electrolysis, huh? Are all of these head gaskets rotted because the gasket is acting as an anode? I've never seen so many engines of one type opened up to see identical looking nasty head gaskets = and many members here seem to be good about fluid intervals.
    No, the gaskets fail, allowing coolant to seep into the head bolt threads and the head bolt becomes the anode. The electrolysis is taking place between the bolt and the block (in the threads).

  8. #23
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    No, the gaskets fail, allowing coolant to seep into the head bolt threads and the head bolt becomes the anode. The electrolysis is taking place between the bolt and the block (in the threads).
    That sequence ^^^ would indicate that the stainless steel fire ring (the torque-to-crush seal ring part of the head gasket above the cylinder liner) is the last to "blow", thus allowing gas from/coolant to a cylinder after the eroding head bolt threads begin to fail. Is this a problem with coolant "wicking" through the composite head gasket felt/graphite/mesh material ? By design, those coolant passages - and the raw gasket edges - are subject to a constant 16 or 18 psi (depending on year) any time the engine is operating...........

    but ........ I have built quite a few (iron block) Olds 455's and GM 454's using 18 psi reservoir caps and I don't ever remember finding coolant in the head bolt holes in the block(s).

  9. #24
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Is this a problem with coolant "wicking" through the composite head gasket felt/graphite/mesh material ?
    That was kind of what I thought when looking at pictures of what is left of them. Hard to say for sure, but looking at the pictures in post #12 & 13 I think it is apparent that the gasket failed before the threads. Those gaskets are deteriorated and rusted through. Hard to imagine that happened because of the head bolts loosing clamping pressure. Cooling system neglect I could understand. Coolant doesn't get changed, anti-corrosion additives wear out and the rust starts. Those pics are a very good argument for 2 year coolant change intervals vs the 5 yr "recommended". GM would have been better off putting a 2 year coolant reminder in the PCM than the OLM. No one forgets to change oil.
    98eldo32v and 98eldo32v like this.

  10. #25
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    No one forgets to change oil.

    Female drivers

    yes, i went there..

  11. #26
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    No, the gaskets fail, allowing coolant to seep into the head bolt threads and the head bolt becomes the anode. The electrolysis is taking place between the bolt and the block (in the threads).
    Yes, I understand that electrolysis is responsible for the thread failure, but the condition of these gaskets makes me wonder if at some point in the process the gasket acts as an anode. Look at those pictures - that's A LOT of corrosion, even for an engine with neglected coolant.

  12. #27
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    It's all debatable. All I am saying is that in the chicken and the egg theory (which has been debated forever), I think the gaskets go first. Why they go, is a whole new debate.

  13. #28
    MRneatfreak- is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Had my friend also known as the Master Mechanic, drill and tap the holes for me, while I held the flashlight . Got too much riding on this repair to screw it up myself, like I almost did on the first hole, but we won't discuss that.

    Got the left bank head back on, just have to torque it down, that was fun getting all 10 studs to go in the same direction , taking on and off again several times because I kept getting oil on the sealing surface of the head with my greasy fingers from the timing chain closet. Got all the bolts installed. Maybe by up in the morning with the blood shot eye I'll have both heads on and snugged down, before the sun rises? Will post some pics tomorrow night.

    Oh and the threadlocker that oozed out of the holes reacted with the glue on the blue painters tape which turned into an sticky residue. Had to re-clean the engine deck again, that stuff did not want to come off.

  14. #29
    MRneatfreak- is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Quote Originally Posted by MRneatfreak- View Post
    I also pulled too hard on the rubber hose to the upper line of the heater core and the metal nipple seperated for the core itself. Don't know if that can me soldered or brazed while still in the car??? Its pretty tight in that corner.
    Any ideas on what I could do besides R&R the heater core? Now is the time to try while the cradle is out.

  15. #30
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    Re: Quick and Dirty 97 Deville HG Job

    Replace the heater core.

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