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98 ETC head gasket project started today...

46K views 266 replies 26 participants last post by  CadillacLuke24 
#1 ·
Well I decided to get into it today... But I am taking a very casual approach to begin. One of the main things is making sure the job is as easy as it can be and that I'm not frustrated by not having the right equipment or tools... That being said, I already faced one frustration by trying to de-couple the fuel lines with plastic disconnect tools...:thumbdown: My advice... Get the metal ones!

Anyway, I am going to drop the cradle I have an engine hoist, a pallet jack and plenty of jack stands, including 2 extra tall ones, so that should help. I have been plugging along and am at step 36 in the FSM (p. 6-85) which says to separate the drive axles from the steering knuckle... My question is if I am dropping everything all together, can't I leave the axles alone?
 
#213 · (Edited)
I have ordered new rod bearing cap bolts from Chris at Rippy... I'm so ready to turn the corner and begin reassembly. If I only knew at the time I opened the rod bearing caps what I know now, I would have left them and the crankshaft alone... Only the main bearings were bad... Once again, experience comes right after you needed it. :(

this project is getting downright expensive. The service manual says you can re-use rod bearings if they are within specs, but after hearing members say they might get out of round... Plus the fact that I think I may have gotten a couple of them mixed up when I pulled the crankshaft, I guess I'll get new ones. As much as I would love to get GM bearings, I just have to find a way to save money. Anybody have any suggestions? There is a full set of main + rod bearings on ebay for $160 According to the listing, they are made by "King". The guy at the machine shop said King bearings are good, anybody have any experience with them?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-03-Cadil...es&hash=item460154d715&vxp=mtr#ht_4517wt_1058

My advice to anybody doing head gaskets is to not get in any deeper than you need to. Once you separate the lower case and go all the way in and replace all bearings, you are signing up for at least $600 more in parts not including the cost of the rear main seal installer tool... Or new rings.

In my case, I did need to reseal the midcase, but hindsight tells me I should have only replaced the main bearings and put it back together.

Not including any tools, this is only a very rough estimate of where I am so far...

Head gasket kit + bolts------------ $260
Parts/supplies for sealing midcase-- $250
Heads serviced---------------------$100
Main & Rod Bearing kit--------------$200 (est.)
Rod Bearing bolts-------------------$100
Insert Kit--------------------------$400
Oil & Filter-------------------------$50
Timing chain tensioner--------------$40
-----------------------------------------------
Total so far for the above parts ----$1,400

Also I discovered I am going to need...

Front motor mount
Heater core
Battery cable (maybe both)

And then there are other things that could be replaced as a preventative measure, like oil pump, some hoses, etc. Anybody who takes on this job needs to count the cost first and weigh it against the value of their car. I will be fine, but not by much! I have actually spent even more on a few tools, etc. but I didn't count that.
 
#219 ·
Marc - saw your list of expenses, so far. Honestly, in most cases, these HG jobs end up needing to be a labor of love - it's hard to justify monetarily. If you love the car and plan to keep driving it, you really can't put a price tag on the sense of pride and grin that will be on your face every time you drive the car. It's a horrible, long, drawn out, expensive repair...and that's what makes it feel so good to have accomplished it. At least, that's how I felt, and still do.
 
#221 ·
Yeah - I forgot to mention someone we used to see a lot of back in the day: his handle was Destroyer, and he had a bad experience N* HG experience. He kept telling us that the typical HG failure occurs at a point in the car's life (>10 years/>100K miles) where the repair cost is close to, or more than, the value of the car, and so the HG failure effectively totals the car...and he was right, to a certain point. What he never was able to accept was the fact that it's not always about dollars and cents. I remember when I was trying to decide what to do - the ETC was an extra car I really didn't even need - a friend told me not to bother, unless I really wanted to keep driving the car and was looking for a project. That did the trick! I did the repair, successfully, and continued to drive the car for another few years until I gave it to my stepson, who still drives it every day.
 
#222 · (Edited)
Yeah, Destroyer still posts in the Community Lounge sometimes. He doesn't have much love for the Northstar I have noticed. LOL.

You are right. You can't look at everything in terms of money. I love Eldorados and there is just nothing else out there like one. I think it's worth saving and making literally better than new where the engine is concerned.
 
#230 ·
Got it! Thanks - you saved me $15 and it doesn't look like any of the bolts are bent.

----------

Thanks. I had seen that link. tateo's tool looked like a slightly earlier version of the current model. I know $150 is a lot of dough, but after the third job, it will have cost only $50/job. And this is one task you really don't want to have trouble with.

I would have gladly paid $500 for a Northstar engine removal tool - press, turn and engine slides out the bottom.
 
#233 ·
Good afternoon,

I'm in the process of doing head gaskets and installing Jake's studs on my 98 Seville. This thread has been invaluable to read and I have learned a lot. This is my first front wheel drive engine so it is a wonderful learning experience.

I have a question, though. When you itemized the different parts and costs you mentioned head gaskets "and bolts." Does that mean you are not installing studs when you put it back together?
 
#235 ·
^^^^ Correct. Using Norm's inserts. At the time I started this projects studs were not available, and from my research, it is really 6 of one, half dozen of another as far as holding strength goes.

Glad the thread is useful. There are 3 other N* head gasket threads going on right now too. Regardless of if studs or inserts are used, the labor and procedure is mostly the same.
 
#236 ·
Faded did you take some pics of the lower end all apart? guess i am being lazy not wanting to page thru the whole thread, but glad to hear your getting back at it, too. I am getting tired of driving the old 94 cavalier with no AC, i so wish this was just a project and not my main ride i am working on! I am stressing over how work and other "chores" is cramping my back yard wrenching time! Hahahaa, i am sure when i look back on this though it will not seem like it took 2 months to complete!
 
#239 ·
Let the reassembly begin!... But first allow me to ask a question... I am about to reinstall the pistons but I was wondering if I should try to remove the buildup on the cylinder walls. What do you think? (sorry about the crappy pics, only camera I had was my phone)



 
#240 ·
Looks like that engine sat for a while. Or maybe the stains are from coolant sitting in the cylinders. Do the rings look okay? Will your fingernail catch on any of those marks? You might see what happens with a little rub of fine (maybe 0) steel wool. The only reason I would be concerned is if the stains will transfer particles to the rings when you start running it again. If it is just staining, it probably won't hurt a thing. Are you planning on installing new rings?
 
#241 ·
Not sure how long it sat, but it wouldn't surprise me if it sat for a matter of months. The stains halfway up look worse in pics than in person. They appear to be just that, stains. Cylinder walls are slick as could be other than the residue at the very bottom of each cylinder. It scrapes right off with my fingernail. I was not planning to replace the rings. I am sure they would scrub up nicely with some 00 or 000 steel wool, but I heard that steel wool was taboo on a Northstar for some reason... :noidea:
 
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