98 ETC Head Gasket project started today... - Page 3
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today... in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Just a reminder - that exhaust crossunder Y affair - when you remove it, take a hard look inside. You ...
  1. #31
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Just a reminder - that exhaust crossunder Y affair - when you remove it, take a hard look inside. You might want to do some rainy day Dremel tool work on the area where the left manifold pipe Y's into the rear - some have a significant amount of extra pipe stuck in there.
    98eldo32v and 98eldo32v like this.

  2. #32
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Faded, I was busy yesterday and forgot to take pics.

    For some reason, the site won't accept the image URL for two of the pics (I've been trying for 10 minutes), they're here: http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/...ent%3Deng3.jpg

    http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent%3D26.jpg

    The second one is at night with side lighting so you can see the worst of it. You can see how rough the surface of the valve covers and cassettes are.

    The surface of the beauty cover on the other hand is very smooth:

    eng2.jpg

    Overall, it looks good despite the surface imperfections:

    eng1.jpg

    .....Sorry for the crappy cell phone picture quality.

  3. #33
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Looks great man! The beauty cover dominates the view so the rough camshaft covers and cassettes don't look bad.

  4. #34
    Faded Crest's Avatar
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Is this oil pooling up under the intake common? What does it indicate?


  5. #35
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Not common, mine was clean as a whistle. Im thinking intake gaskets somehow, id have the heads checked.

  6. #36
    Faded Crest's Avatar
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    I got stuck because I didn't have the right kind of puller to get the water pump pulley off with, so I pulled the cam cover off the other side and pulled out the spark plugs. Here are some pics...

    The head is clean, of course...



    All the cam lobes look really good...



    It looks to me like this is where the oil is coming from... Front bank head gasket...



    Here is a zoom in of the last picture...




    Here are the plugs from the front bank...


  7. #37
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    Looks like you found the culprit.

  8. #38
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Hard to see real clearly with the pics, but a couple of those front plugs are pretty washed.

  9. #39
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    The oil pooling in the starter valley is from the bad headgasket. I had some from the sts donor motor but not as much as you have there.

    Wait till you have to start removing head bolts. You'll need a 10 mm allen head hex bit. Some bolts will be very hard to remove and when loosened will make a distinct snapping sound. The ones that don't snap were probably going bad. The snapping sound startled me a few times, I thought I broke the bolt or the allen bit that I was using.

    You will probabbly find the 10mm allen head bit in 3/8 drive. I took the bit out of the 3/8 drive and stuck it in a 6 sided 10mm 1/2 drive socket. This will give you more leverage to use with a 1/2" drive breaker bar. The longer the better.

    I commend you on dropping the cradle. When I took the motor out of the sts, it was through the top. When I just removed the trans I dropped the cradle just to see how much work was still gong to be involved. It wasn't so bad, but getting the car high enough has been my only issue.

    I found out on the sts I disconnected the brake lines that run to the rear of the vehicle under the right side firewall, loosened the strut mount bolts, loosened the master cylinder from the brake booster, loosened the brake hoses brackets from the body in the fenders, the trans mount in the left fender, The right motor mount in the right fender (had the motor still been ibn the car), fuel lines and wiring and exhaust associated with the engine, the steering rack pinch bolt, it would have come out rather quickly. Yet, loweing the cradle and moving it around from underneath the vehicle I haven't felt comforatable with. That's a lot of weight to be pushing around. I guess my point had always been now that you dropped the cradle, you still have to separate the engine from the trans. I felt I might as well do that from the begininng and leave the reast of that other stuff alone.

    Keep at it Faded. I'll be watching. My motor is on the stand with the heads off and the mid case separated from the main block. I stopped to tinker with the deville, but after I install the trans that's coming it's full throttle on the engine rebuild.

    Are you resealing the mid case also or just doing the headgasket? Keep the pictures coming, I love them. When I start drilling the block I'll try to take some.

    Just take your time and check EVERYTHING as you go along. Wishing you the best results through the project........

  10. #40
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Thanks for the encouragement. It's amazing how many of us Eldo guys are doing this job right now.

    Yeah, I figured that sludgy mess is at least part of where the gasket is blown . It actually looks like it got it on the other side too, but not as bad. I was real happy to see the camshafts in such good shape. Someone else who recently did the job had pretty bad wear on the lobes and had to replace the camshafts. It also never ceases to amaze me how clean these engines stay. Having owned so many vintage Caddys over the years, I just accepted sludge as a part of life. At LOL.

    At first I tried to keep the brake system closed for the most part but I got them a little tangled coming down so I wound up saying to heck with it and just disconnected everything that would make it easier on myself.

    Probably the stupidest thing I have done so far was to forget to disconnect the heater core. I can't believe I did that! The manual said to disconnect all coolant lines, and didn't specifically say "heater core" so with everything else on my mind I forgot about it until it was too late. But at the same time, with where those hoses are located it wouldn't be a bad idea to just have installed a new one anyway as preventative maintenance. At least now I can crawl into the engine compartment to attach the hoses. LOL

    Yeah, I figure I'll go all the way, mid-case and all. I'd just be hating life too much if I reinstalled it only to find a nasty leak that could have been taken care of while it was out. I will indeed keep the photos coming. It's fun to get into it and learn... And thank God for all the amazing folks here on this forum. There is no way in the world I would try this without all you guys!

  11. #41
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Faded,

    If doing the mid case seal, you may have to get some extra parts. It's completely up to you, yet if yours isn't leaking I'd leave it alone.

    From my own personal experience with a northstar motor thus far, if you do the mid case seal, the main bearings are supposed to be replaced (yours may look fine like the ones in my 150k motor, but I bought new ones anyway), the rod bearings are supposed to be replaced (haven't seen mine yet, didn't separate the mid case completely but bought rod bearings), the rod bolts, the main cap bolts and the oil distribution plate. I went the full sha-bang, all of the above and a new oil pump. Again, if your seal isn't leaking dodge this bullet.

    Don't beat yourself up on the hose, it happens. Until you start pulling engines often enough that type of stuff will happen. Usually I disconnect the hoses at the engine. While you have the cradle down, inspect your power steering hoses, replace those now while you can easily get to them.

    I have a slight head start on you with my eldo, but at the rate you're dismantling stuff you'll soon pass me. Take your time and if you need help just ask, we're all here to make it go easier.
    Faded Crest and Faded Crest like this.

  12. #42
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Faded Crest View Post
    But at the same time, with where those hoses are located it wouldn't be a bad idea to just have installed a new one anyway as preventative maintenance.
    The metal heater piping tend to rust over time and it's generally suggested to be replaced when the engine is out. It's PITA to change with the engine in there.

  13. #43
    Faded Crest's Avatar
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Quote Originally Posted by maeng9981 View Post
    The metal heater piping tend to rust over time and it's generally suggested to be replaced when the engine is out. It's PITA to change with the engine in there.
    Thanks for the tip... I remember reading a lot of misery stories of people doing it in the car. LOL. This is the one big chance to get everything right.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 98eldo32v View Post
    Faded,

    If doing the mid case seal, you may have to get some extra parts. It's completely up to you, yet if yours isn't leaking I'd leave it alone.

    From my own personal experience with a northstar motor thus far, if you do the mid case seal, the main bearings are supposed to be replaced (yours may look fine like the ones in my 150k motor, but I bought new ones anyway), the rod bearings are supposed to be replaced (haven't seen mine yet, didn't separate the mid case completely but bought rod bearings), the rod bolts, the main cap bolts and the oil distribution plate. I went the full sha-bang, all of the above and a new oil pump. Again, if your seal isn't leaking dodge this bullet.

    Don't beat yourself up on the hose, it happens. Until you start pulling engines often enough that type of stuff will happen. Usually I disconnect the hoses at the engine. While you have the cradle down, inspect your power steering hoses, replace those now while you can easily get to them.

    I have a slight head start on you with my eldo, but at the rate you're dismantling stuff you'll soon pass me. Take your time and if you need help just ask, we're all here to make it go easier.
    Well I will have a good look at the midcase. It's still kind of difficult to see what's what since I got stuck so quickly last night on the disassembly. It seems like getting this motor out to work on can be like pulling a thread out of a sweater or opening a can of worms... The previous owner told me it leaked oil pretty badly, but he also told me it didn't overheat, so maybe he lied on both counts, the latter in my favor... LOL. Actually I wonder if it had a coolant leak at the crossover and was pulling grease down off the block which made him think it was oil. It was also very low on power steering fluid. He claimed to be "a mechanic"... But if that is true, then I am a rocket scientist and a brain surgeon in my spare time. LOL. From what I can see, the block looks pretty clean, but like I said, it's still too soon to tell.

    So how much more money would have to spend going all the way? New bearings, dist. plate, etc?

  14. #44
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    I posted the close up picture of the inside of the head gasket in another thread and someone thought they saw a crack in the block! Ironically what they thought they saw turned out to be just a casting imperfection, but because I was looking closely, I did find something several inches from where he thought he saw one! Here is the original post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    I don't think thats a head gasket (in the conventional blown head gasket sense), it looks like a cracked block right below where those gunky bubles look to be coming out of the gasket. Clean that area off and take a good look at the area leading back to that little circular cavity under the gasket.
    After reading this post I went down for a better look. I removed the starter and sopped up all the standing oil. There was a LOT more than I first thought. I would say close to a half quart. I am going to go get my camera and some carb. cleaner and take some closeups of what I found. When I spoke with AJxtcman a couple weeks ago I expressed my concerns about an undetected cracked block. He told me that "flaking" was typical but not cracking. So the big question is... Is what I am seeing "flaking"? or "cracking"?

  15. #45
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    Re: 98 ETC Head Gasket project started today...

    Hopefully all of this is just a tempest in a teapot... I will be anxiously awaiting opinions of what all this means, if anything.

    This is the first area that caused me some concern...



    Here is a similar one...



    Here is what I assume AJxtcman was talking about when he was describing benign "flaking"...



    Here is more of what I think is a combination of casting imperfections and the beginnings of what would be considered "flaking"


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