Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro. in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Has anyone else realized this lately? Fel-Pro's seal quality dropping? Cylinder Head Gasket Sets (upper engine)- Quality concerns: -valve cover ...
  1. #1
    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Has anyone else realized this lately? Fel-Pro's seal quality dropping?

    Cylinder Head Gasket Sets (upper engine)-

    Quality concerns:

    -valve cover gaskets stretched or too long, difficult to install
    -exhaust manifold gaskets used to be MLS like the factory gaskets, they moved to composite a while back

    MOST IMPORTANTLY:

    -I'm realizing the rubber bolt grommets for the camshaft covers are WAY too soft. The hardness of the rubber determines the clamping pressure on the valve cover (cam cover) gaskets. I'm talking about 93-99 Northstars-

    I will be calling Federal Mogul with my complaints. This, to me, is unacceptable. The old GM grommets are a better rubber compound than new FelPro?

    I will be trying GM's Grommets from the dealer and if the rubber compound still seems too soft, it's back to R&D to find a better solution. If I have to I'll be contracting someone to make grommets out of harder rubber.

    Has anyone else noticed this? You'd think a company like Federal Mogul could do better than this. They made some of the OEM gaskets for General Motors and I'm sure GM would not have tolerated this.

    The bolts themselves have torque limiters in them more/less- but if the grommets flatten out tightening to factory torque specs, something's very wrong.


    (Sub, got your PM a while back, haven't responded. Still have them if you want one, please send me an email - info@northstarperformance.com)


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    dvo816's Avatar
    dvo816 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Hey Jake, Im taking the STS to get looked at on Friday and I should know exactly where the oil is coming from. Almost positive that its the rear-right corner of the rear cam cover. Ill try to take pictures but it's gonna be hard to do without removing a bunch of stuff. Call or text me when you get a chance. Thanks

    P.S. Did you ever look at those doors? If not, no biggie.
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    98eldo32v's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    I had noticed the same things you stated on a head set for a Ford Taurus 3.0.
    The valve cover gaskets were a bit too large, but they fit in the covers. The exhaust manifold gaskets were composite instead the mls factory ones. So, I cleaned up the factory exhaust gaskets (since they didn't leak) and resused them.

    I guess it's all in the sake of saving a buck........ at the consumers expense.
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    dvo816's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Heres the best picture I could get of the leak. Pic is from underneath the car.


    It seems that its only the bolt/grommet on the rear passenger corner.
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    maeng9981's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Looks like I was the one who bought the kit right before they changed the exhaust gasket to composite.

    Different problem but I had issues with the cam cover gaskets: they included 2 cam cover gaskets, all for the rear one. So I had to reuse the front one, and I still have the extra.
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Well it looks like someone needs to step in and fix Fel-Pro's retardedness.

    I have my CNC laser cutting shop looking into a short run of MLS gaskets. I need to talk to someone about new bolt grommets. I can't build engines with this B.S.

    Devin please hang in there. A fix is coming.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    dvo816's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Ive always kept faith in you and N* Performance and I will continue to do so! Let me know if theres anything I can help with.
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    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Same problems here as well with the Felpro grommets on various engines.
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Dammit- you'd think that if you do everything by the book, using name-brand parts, you'd have a perfect product to offer people.

    As of right now I will no longer sell Northstars. I have one engine to ship and that one's going to Texas. After that, that's it. I've developed a fix for the largest flaw the Northstar has and my job now, is to machine, pass produce, and market that product and ensure that people have a solid repair.

    Why must the small boys always correct the "big boys" mistakes and screwups? I have not yet complained to Federal Mogul but I have that planned, and that's going to net me $0 in reimbursement.

    The largest engine rebuilder in the USA, has given up on the Northstar remanufacturing operation because they were having a 28% failure rate. THESE GUYS ARE SUPPLYING GENERAL MOTORS!!!

    I know the reasons why and I intend to come up with a solution. They told me that for once, these failures had nothing to do with head gasket sealing issues thanks to my studs.

    I'm going to be doing some hard thinking on design improvements to take care of the last few little issues the Northstar has.

    When, and ONLY when, I, or someone else, has developed lasting solutions to oil leaks, camshaft wear, oil consumption out of the norm, etc... AND- when I have engines ON THE SHELF, built, wrapped, and ready to ship- I may resume selling them. Too many headaches with pre-orders, leaks, etc. I know there's a solution and if that involves new castings, exploring new gasket design, etc., that's what it's going to be. I need to talk to some people from GM and I need to talk to them as soon as possible.

    I've interviewed some potential receptionists and I believe I've found the one who will be taking calls soon. Tomorrow I'm going to start the ball rolling on Northstar re-design. A hell of an engine, just needs some refinement and updated fixes.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Thank you Devin. That means a lot.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Your choice to supply studs, install kits and other necessary parts, and discontinue building engines, is a wise one.

    (As Jake knows, I also build engines. It's a thankless job with, on today's economy, diminishing rewards. I too have quit.)
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Well Jim I believe you're right. The only two things that have worked out for me are the vehIcle repairs and stud kits. I've had too many hard falls in a row and even now that I'm up and running with the CNC running things are still very, very hard. That hole my Suppliers put me in, standing at $50k, is getting deeper by the day.

    Edit:

    I don`t know if my stubbornness is a curse or a blessing but something keeps making me push forward. Part of this, I`m aware of what it is.

    I`m ticked off that everyone believes the Japanese dominate automotive and engineering technology. I`m also ticked off that such a wonderful design of an engine, hasn`t had it`s minor wrinkles ironed out. Northstars are GREAT engines. Heck, if that`s so hard to believe, drive a car with a good running Northstar for a week. Who wants to go back- (question mark key not working …)

    I can`t wait until I have the time to fix one of my own Cadillacs again and drive it. My 97 Eldo needs suspension, my 98 STS is totalled, my other 98 STS needs HG`s, my 97 ETC was in the process of getting the HG`s done but no time to complete.

    One heck of an engine. They`re not getting proper credit, nor the aftermarket attention they so desperately need and deserve.
    JoeTahoe and JoeTahoe like this.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Excel Polymers is going to be helping me develop a fix for the soft rubber gaskets. Got some new ones from GM this morning and they are improved, but not the hardness I'd like to see.

    STOP USING FEL-PRO valve cover bolt grommets. That's my $.02 worth of advice. Use GM for these parts if at all possible.

    EDIT: No longer going the rubber route. Well, yes and no.

    Sometimes the answers are so simple they stare you right in the face. I have the solution, will post photos later if I get around to completing this. Right now priorities are looking after the customers I so desperately need to look after.

    P.S., all those waiting for an engine from me, or for a vehicle repair from me, "IF" I have this fix completed and produced by the time I complete your engine and/or car, it will be included at no extra charge. If I don't have it completed, you will be getting the GM Grommets and NOT federal mogul's. They wouldn't even consider me for an account when I tried to apply, and now I'm kind of happy they refused my direct business.

    EDIT #2: SpeedyGMan and TErnstres - Got everything I need now to finish those main studs, CNC STYLE. Look for an update from me within the next 48 hours please. I am so thankful for your patience.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Quote Originally Posted by 97EldoCoupe View Post
    As of right now I will no longer sell Northstars. I have one engine to ship and that one's going to Texas. After that, that's it.

    Ok, so i guess i'll be looking elsewhere for a replacement block..
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  16. #15
    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Not happy with Federal Mogul's quality levels anymore. Specifically Fel-Pro.

    Vince email me your email address please.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGripô Cylinder Head Stud Kit
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