HG For Me Too!
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, HG For Me Too! in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Like a lot of you I'm also in the middle of doing the HG on my friends 2001 Deville. He's ...
  1. #1
    w98seeng is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    HG For Me Too!

    Like a lot of you I'm also in the middle of doing the HG on my friends 2001 Deville. He's a used car dealer and the car is for resale, so only the necessary stuff is being done, so out comes the back head, the front is staying put. As my driveway is on an incline, I can't lift the car high enough to get the motor out the bottom, so I'm doing it in car.

    I sent the head off for planing and went to put it in hoping the threads would be OK as I heard after 1999 the blocks aren't that bad, but alas, I went to tighten the second bolt to 22 ft/lb and the threads snapped. Actually, I have 4 bad ones just from putting the head bolts in hand tight and removing them.

    So out comes the head again and I am doing the timeserts. No room to install studs.

    Does anyone happen to have a set they have used and want to sell? I will buy the timeserts, but I need the installation kit.

    The kit # I need for the 2001 is J-42385-2000, is this correct?

    Thanks,
    Ian

    Here are some pics of the job...
    I know in the pics there is only the OEM jack on the car, but it's OK, there are two stands underneath also.










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  3. #2
    drewsdeville's Avatar
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Another 2000+ bites the dust...

  4. #3
    w98seeng is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by drewsdeville View Post
    Another 2000+ bites the dust...
    From what I have read the 2000's and up weren't as susceptible to the bolt problem that's why my friend took a chance and bought it for resale.

    But it will rise from the ashes once again.

    Ian

  5. #4
    w98seeng is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Looking at the Timeserts website they mention a different kit for 2000 and later engines. They say that "the block is similar to the early 4.0/4.6 but has two thread depths, 35mm upper bank and 51mm lower bank. This is measured from top of the block to the first starting thread."

    Does this mean there are two different length bolts? All 10 of mine are the same length.

  6. #5
    89falcon is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Seems a little silly to me to have it THAT far, and NOT do the other side also! As a matter of fact, I could maybe even see doing just the front side, but to do the back and NOT the front.....

    Other than the extra labor of doing the timeserts, you'd only have about another $100 in the job....and if nothing else, it sounds like a "smart" investment even for a used car salesman....a couple hundred $'s is cheap insurance against the other side blowing in a month or two and having the kindly old lawyer who bought the car being rather pissed and litigious.....

  7. #6
    w98seeng is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by 89falcon View Post
    Seems a little silly to me to have it THAT far, and NOT do the other side also!

    a couple hundred $'s is cheap insurance against the other side blowing in a month or two and having the kindly old lawyer who bought the car being rather pissed and litigious.....
    This is exactly what I told him, but he's the kind of guy who doesn't spend money unless he absolutely has to.

    Ian

  8. #7
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Do it once, and do it right.

  9. #8
    89falcon is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by w98seeng View Post
    This is exactly what I told him, but he's the kind of guy who doesn't spend money unless he absolutely has to.

    Ian
    I've got no pony in this race...when my HG went, I just swapped out the entire engine with a less used one....mine had over 200K on it and I felt the bottom end probably wasn't long for this world......but if I WERE doing it, my choices would be.....

    -Studs: understand you don't want to drop the motor out the bottom....I keep hearing it isn't THAT big of a deal to pull it out the top....but if the guy paying the bill is too cheap to do both sides....studs aren't an option
    -Norm's inserts (300s?): simple math....more surface area between insert, stronger threads....the price for Norm's kit is NOT really higher than the timeserts....and I think someone had the jig for sale cheap here....but they are also on ebay...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NORTH...item2563d009bd
    -Bigserts: ie, second repair timeserts.....same as above....more surface area, better threads...price about the same as normal timeserts...and if you ever get conned into doing this again...you don't have to worry about what you'll do when you pull a head and find out its already been timeserted once...
    -timeserts.....good luck....I'd never even consider doing it to MY car...too much work for dubious results....JMHO....read some of AJ's threads about Northstar blocks he's torn down....

    Keep in mind that 4 sets of threads gave way when you tried to install the last head gasket.....it doesn't sound like you're working with the strongest block to begin with.....was it neglected? was the coolant old? is the other side already gone, but is still holding up ok with the compression the starter can build, but NOT the pressure of WOT?

    Just sayin......

  10. #9
    kildysartkid is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    My question would be, how can you be sure its just the rear head gasket that's blown. From what I read the most reliable way to find if you have a blown head gasket is with a block test which checks for exhaust gases in the coolant, but will not tell you which head. When I checked mine I used compressed air to pressurize each cylinder one at time and watch for air bubbles in the surge tank. Even this is not fool proof as I was applying only 120 psi to the cylinder and but when the engine is running the pressure in the cylinders is much higher probably about 600 psi when the fuel ignites.
    You could find yourself in completing the rear head only to find the front is bad also and have to pull the fuel rail, intake and timing cover all over again.

  11. #10
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    Re: HG For Me Too!



    The front is much easier than the rear. It seems a shame to do a half assed job. I'd hate to be the sucker that buys that car from him (or any car based on what you told us).

  12. #11
    w98seeng is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    I know, I know. What can I do. It's actually better for me as I will make more money when I have to do the front head gasket later on.

    Ian

  13. #12
    00 Deville's Avatar
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by w98seeng View Post
    I know, I know. What can I do. It's actually better for me as I will make more money when I have to do the front head gasket later on.

    Ian
    Ian, Just curious about what you are charging the guy to do the rear head... how much more would you charge him to do the front head at the same time?

  14. #13
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    Please help Northstar drivers stay on the road by fixing it right.

    Because of these band aid fixes, lots of Northstars are being thrown away and they get bad reputations. You have to explain very well about this situation to your friend and convince him to pay for the right fix.

    In my case the front gasket was in worse condition than the rear one, and all 4 cylinders were leaking on the front.(comparing to the rear which only had leak on #2)

  15. #14
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    a few kits on ebay. buy one and than sell it. they go fast. how far did you tear head down? remove cams/valves for machining? did shop tell you if head was warped? a good shop will check head for flatness and only take off minimum? did they mention how tweaked it was?

  16. #15
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: HG For Me Too!

    I sent the head off for planing
    That was probably a waste of money right there. The heads almost never need to be milled.

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