timing chain with engine in car
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, timing chain with engine in car in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; car the timing chain be reset on a 95 Eldo if the motor is still in car? is there room ...
  1. #1
    Pete315 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    timing chain with engine in car

    car the timing chain be reset on a 95 Eldo if the motor is still in car? is there room to remove the harmonic balancer and front timing cover?

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    buggin123 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    By pulling the pass side wheel, you can definately pull balancer and front engine timing cover. It's not easy but doable. If you need to reset timing chain your in for a lot more than just the chain, as these engine are such that the valves get bent if your cam timing has jumped.

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    bigtone's Avatar
    bigtone is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    If you do a search, I posted previously how I did HG in the car. I only removed the bolts from the timing cover, there is enough room to get in there to release the tensioners without removing the balancer.

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    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    What are you trying to do? They make a special set of pliers that reach down into the cam chain opening in the head to keep the tensioners compressed. Then you can take the camgears off the cams and reposition everything. If your just trying to move the cam a tooth or to, thats the way to go.

  6. #5
    Pete315 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    I read your post Bigtone. awesome write up. I'm probably going to do the head gasket repair with engine in the car. I also have plenty of time. I'm going to go with Norms' repair kit. the only thing that concerns me is that timing chain tensioner issue but your write up gave me the confidence to do the job. hope you don't mind if I send you some private messages if I run into a problem. I plan on starting job when weather warms up. I read that I could stick a block of wood by the tensioners to keep them from getting tighter. do the cam gears come off the cam easy or do they need to come off with a puller?

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    bigtone's Avatar
    bigtone is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    The block of wood performs the same function of the tool mentioned above. To be honest, I think I had enough room to reach thru the head opening to release the tensioners. I ended up opening the timing cover just to replace a plastic guide I broke when removing the head. The gears do come off easy. Any questione shoot me a PM.

  8. #7
    Thawcko is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    Got a question, Just did inserts in the head to replace the head gasket... Made a Mistake in taking apart the heads, should have put the engine top dead center before tearing down, but unfortunately my kid started the tear down and did not do it.. well anyway put the heads back on, I had tie wrapped the chains on the sprockets at the top and put a bungee on em to keep tension, well the chain must have still slipped a few teeth, but am not sure if it did or the bottom end turned... once the heads are on how can i check to see if the timing is correct? If I put at top dead center on number one piston are there indicators on the heads? and where do the align? I am just thinking the chain slipped down the bottom as if The bottom end did turn you would think both sides would be off the same amount...Thanks for any input.Also what is the torque for the head bolts? Is it the same with inserts as without??? it is a 95 Northstar....

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    bigtone's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    The chain for the rear head slipped on mine too, even though I had it bungeed down. I had thought about that ahead of time, that is why I stopped and locked the engine at tdc #1 before I disassembled, just as extra insurance, and I was glad I did that. To be honest, you need to set the timing up from scratch now, but you cannot turn over the engine with the heads installed, I believe you will have valve/piston contact. What I would do is remove the camshafts. Not really hard at this point to do that. Then I would rotate the engine and stop it at TDC #1. I used a depth dial indicator down #1 plug hole to get there. Then install the cams with the marks at exactly 90 degrees to the valve cover flange. If you are anal like me you could then rotate the engine by hand to ensure no interference, then perform a cranking compression test and ensure that the front and rear cylinders are close to even. If you are off a tooth, I would think you would see a noticable difference in the compressions front to rear.

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    tateos's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    The head bolts are turned to a certain torque, then a certain # degrees, in three steps. Don't quote me, but it's something like 27 ft pounds, 60 degrees, 60 degrees, 70 degrees. Better check the specs on that

  11. #10
    ejguillot's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    I would reset the timing from scratch, by pulling the camshafts. Before you reinstall the camshafts, run a leakdown test and make sure your valves are sealing adequately (a bent valve would show a very severe leak, at least 40% leakdown or more depending on tester).

  12. #11
    Thawcko is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    Thanks for the replies, where are the marks on the cam exactly,I am assuming they are the pins at the end???and you say 90 deg from the flange, so that would be facing up 90 deg right? want to see the marks before I take off the cam... And where do I find the specs for the head torque.. I really do not think the bottom end moved but better safe then sorry Thanks again for the help... Oh and isn't the Northstar a non interference engine?? so could I not turn it by hand and check to see if at TDC that the marks are at 90 deg???

  13. #12
    tateos's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    Definitely interference - very much so. I seem to recall I installed and turned down the head bolts on the right bank finger tight, before I realized I had forgotten to orient the cams properly...or maybe it was the crank. Well, anyway, I tried to turn the crank by hand to the proper position, very gingerly, but the valves hit pistons and locked up the engine, so I had to back off the head bolts and lift the head off the block a little to gain the clearance I need to align everything. It may be possible to turn cams or the crank partially, but you will not be able to turn anything 360 degrees without hitting something. If you do need to make a small adjustment, I don't think there would be any harm in trying to do it like I did, but just be careful, and stop if you meet any resistance.

  14. #13
    Thawcko is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    Going to go at it today, have the day off if any one has any input I will be looking it threw the day, doe these torque specs sound right?

    In sequence, torque all bolts to 30 ft.-lbs.
    In sequence, rotate all bolts an additional 70 degrees.
    In sequence, rotate all bolts an additional 60 degrees.
    In sequence, rotate all bolts another 60 degrees

    How can I tell exactly what 70 Degrees is? or 60 Degrees? never did a head that required degrees??


    Thanks....

  15. #14
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    A hex head bolt has 6 points - 6 x 60 (degrees) = 360 degrees. Eyeball it with a magic marker tickmark.

  16. #15
    tateos's Avatar
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    Re: timing chain with engine in car

    I used this angle gauge - I don't recommend this particular one, but others here have used other ones that i think might be better:

    http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...5x000001&aff=Y

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