Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand. in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I just read the last couple pages in the tuning thread. I believe I can see what's going on. That ...
  1. #1
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    I just read the last couple pages in the tuning thread. I believe I can see what's going on. That PM that got around, that I never knew about until now, well, someone please PM me and let me in on that.

    OK so the fact is that tuning the PCM looks to be out of the question, at least for now.

    So for those of us who want pure, raw horsepower from our toys, what are our options?

    I love the Caddy body styles. I love the electronics, and the gadgets.

    I'm not giving up. the S/C project and the camshafts will still be work in progress. But if nothing can be dialed in to reach it's best potential...

    Makes me want to remove the body from my '76 Olds Chassis and throw my Eldo's body on that frame......

    A new PCM built from scratch and programmed in would cost thousands upon thousands, unless there's anybody that knows anybody who know's someone who can design and program a new one from scratch.

    Otherwise, all that's left is to run the engine with a standalone ECM. Then we will likely lose all the info on the DIC, the VATS will have problems, stabilitrak, RSS, the list goes on. I'm not enough into electronics to figure out a way to intigrate a standalone PCM into the vehicle while retaining all of those Caddy options.

    Cadillac did a wonderful job designing and building these cars. But they should have left room for modifications.

    I am almost willing to lose most of the Caddy features to have an all-out performance 97 Eldorado. Sure, it can be built. But it has to pass all the legal issues so it can be street driven. Not so much of an issue here in Canada, but in the USA....

    This would mean a standalone engine controller, maybe an old 700-R4 and RWD, aftermarket stereo, aftermarket guages, regular suspension, and such.

    If it was done right it would still be worth it. But General Motors should work with a certain forum member who shall be nameless right now to satisfy all of us performance oriented Cadillac enthusiasts. If GM was smart, they'd listen to what we want. Cadillac is a big name and the Northstar has been a big success. It would be way bigger if they cooperated with us.

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  3. #2
    osu411yamaha is offline Banned
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Jake,
    If you were to go the route of dodging the PCM I may have some methods of getting around the VATS issue. From the looks of other threads I also believe other members could help you in the stabilitrack department by using some sort of passive suspension method...
    Thanks,
    OSU411Yamaha

  4. #3
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Very true. All I know is that I want this:

    A Cadillac, a modern style Cadillac, with the feel of a refined muscle machine.

    I'm still installing those cams to see if there's any improvement and if driveability is affected at all.

    If re-tuning the Northstar on the stock PCM simply doesn't work, We'll just have to go to extremes.

    I think I want to buy a Cadillac Cien. That's one hot looking Caddy.

  5. #4
    Pete1996 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    A couple questions if you don't mind.

    Is the crank position sensor used for ignition timing, fuel injection timing, and RPM only? Anything else?

    Is there a schematic for this year STS showing the PCM and engine wiring online somewhere?

    I'm an electrical engineer by the way and I have a few ideas that might lead to a solution.

    Thanks,
    Pete

  6. #5
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    If I remember correctly the cam position sensor is used for the fuel injectors and crank position sensors for the spark. I will have to check.

  7. #6
    Warmarshall2nd is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    I believe Raze was telling me there's a way to piggyback a 'Power Perfect's SMT8' computer on our stock PCMs.

    Here's where the hard part comes in, tuning, well I've spent many a year looking and even got into figuring out how to adapt a MegaSquirt but instead I've found this gem: Power Perfect's SMT8, http://www.perfectpowerusa.citymax.c...ge/1995627.htm
    ...
    If you read the fine print you'll see Bob Ida tuned the COMPLETE 2003 N* + wiring harness
    The post in its entirety can be found here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...-dorado-3.html

    Or... Would this only work for a turbo kit and not a supercharger?

    Just a thought...

  8. #7
    99Classillac's Avatar
    99Classillac is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Hey guys, remember that white DTS that someone made RWD with that loud ass V8 with monster HP? I forgot the shop who did it but the car was sold around a couple times. I had contacted them about it. They said that they could put any motor in the Deville and still make the DIC and all the other things in the car work. Well instead of them making a RWD big block V8 that still uses everything else, why cant they put a sand rail N* in it, leave it FWD and get the car to still work. It seems like if they can get other motors to work, getting a modded sand rail N* to work should be easy...

  9. #8
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    A sand rail N* is nothing more than a stock Northstar fitted with CHRFab's wonderful line of go-fast parts. It could be installed in anything. My 98 STS has 4 of those wacky-idle cams in it. It works with the stock PCM.

    That was a 572 BB Chevy between the fenders and I forget the shop's name. That was crazy power and I imagine crazy gas mileage too- less than 15 MPG, you would think.

    I still question the demand for RWD Eldorados, Devilles, Sevilles, and Auroras. With the real Northstar they came with, mounted longitudinally. I think it's totally possible but when I looked at the underbody, I noticed the floor pan will need to be modded as well for driveshaft clearance. They should have been RWD. I think GM lost a lot of business when they discontinued the RWD B-body in 1996. Big screw up on their part.

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    garlicbreath is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99Classillac View Post
    Hey guys, remember that white DTS that someone made RWD with that loud ass V8 with monster HP?
    Come to our shop, we'll make your shit fast
    [YOUTUBE]z2lM5SdMVlc[/YOUTUBE]

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    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    One of the oldest links in CF...............the car has been sold three times now.........must be a really reliable driver..............

    $70,000 !!!!!

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    99Classillac's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Lol yea. I wouldn't get it because it's too loud. But my point was maybe instead of trying to get our PCM's tuned to get power out of the N*, just do what these guys did. They got everything to work in the car that originally worked, they just changed the motor. I would like to see a lot less work. Like instead of the monster motor they shoved in there, the N* since the motor would mount right up. Thats why I said a sandrail N*. It would bolt up, and then just treat it like it was that 572. Get everything in the car to work the way they did it, and I guess a standalone PCM just for the sandrail N*. That way you don't have to custom up some mounts are all that other shit. I think it would work. But you could potentially have a high HP N* in your car with everything else still working. You understand where I am coming from? I don't know if I'm making sense or am clear. If they made it work with a 572, you can make it work for sure with a 4.6L that will bolt in. Hell, keep it FWD. Less custom fabricating.

    I say sandrail N* just for purposes of seperating the stock motor from a modified higher HP N* motor.

  13. #12
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    99 - I know exactly what you mean and that would be awesome - but I don't believe for one second that they managed to retain all of the Cadillac "goodies" with that 572. Not unless they miraculously used the stock PCM to control that engine. A lot of the electronics in the car rely on feedback from the PCM. With a standalone PCM, there would be no feedback. This stuff is the only thing holding me back from convering my '97 Eldo to RWD.

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    Necrosan is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Someone would need to piggyback onto our PCMs and see what signals are sent, etc and record the data for days if not weeks of driving.
    See what goes where, what keeps what happy, etc. Then build a PCM socket or something to go in between the new engine and the old PCM, along with some kind of basic chip that would emulate the missing things from a non-northstar pcm/engine to keep the rest of the car happy.

    The hardest part would be finding the variables that really matter, once that's done building the actual stuff to go in between wouldn't be that hard.

    Only so many wires on a PCM.

  15. #14
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Necrosan you hit the nail dead center on the head. That would be the miracle that we all need. Who's up for an electronic/electrical challenge?

  16. #15
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    Re: Tuning thread. Disappointed, but I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by garlicbreath View Post
    [YOUTUBE]z2lM5SdMVlc[/YOUTUBE]
    Hahaha

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