Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Check out my Headgasket Job in the car!!!! in Cadillac Engine Discussion; the rear head sucks while in the car especially the chain tensioners
if ur going to do it in the ...
Please don't jump TOO harshly on this question!! Beyond tight workspaces, hard-to-reach bolts, and awkward rear drilling, why is "engine-in-car" so bad? It seems like an irritating option, by some of us don't have the ability to get the body up and engine thru the well. I'm rolling the "in-car" idea around in the back of my mind, but all but a few posters scream "NOOOOOOO!" I'm just wondering why it's so bad. Is it mostly a patience issue?
As always, I appreciate any input.
I can answer that from experience, it is a patience issue. If you need to do it quick, then drop the cradle. But I had the time, and I didnt think I had the height in my garage to lift the car to get the engine out from the underneath. You just have to be creative, and do a little at a time, like most big jobs. I used to restore musclecars years ago, and have built a couple custom bikes, so I dont mind a big project.
som hoing to go with TIMESERTS but which ones the regulars or the big-sert ones for second repair will the big-serts have more chance of staying they look almost as big as norms. waitin on opinions before i order
Bigserts are what you use after your Timeserts fail. I would not start with Bigserts, but then again I wouldn't use "serts" to do my repair. I toiled with the issue for many an hour before I decided to go with Norm's. I do not recall finding a single bad post about Norm's but found many regarding the others. If I had it to do again I probably would go with the studs that 97eldo offers - more thread (coarse thread) to engage the block so there is less probability that they will fail.
well after doing ALOT of research i cant find where norns have failed so im going to order the kit today. Also i was looking at the bolt holes on the rear bank and 3 or 4 are filled with coolant.Is this normal with headgasket failure? hope somebody can chime in and say ya that is normal cas it is worrying me. Hope to have it back together by the end of this week. Also i had a bad knock, not at idle only while accelerating and i hope that is not something that is really bad.
Do you have an air compressor? If so, I would put a rubber tipped air gun to the hole and see if it holds pressure. If not then clean the coolant out of the hole and pray... Some blocks have casting defects that let coolant get into places that they are not supposed to be. AJ details some of the ones he's worked with in the sticky thread here "Root cause of Headgasket Failure and a Fix?"... Honestly I wouldn't know how to fix it if that was the problem. But, I can say that if the coolant continues to get in there where the headbolt is after you do the job, electrolysis will happen which would cause the bolt/insert/threads to corrode.
well i got the norms kit. Got local machine shop to drill and ream a hole in the tap block provided, but i found that free hand worked better because with the tap block it would jump everytime i tried to start the hole. Drilled all 10 holes on left bank.One hole, the upper right corner i was off about 1/16 of the original hole will the head still be able to be installed properley??
HOW MUCH CAN YOU BE OFF???????????
You cannot be off by more than about .005" max. You have probably ruined the block because 1/16" is about .062", and you'll bend or break the headbolt while torquing it in.
Your only hope to salvage the job now is to remove the engine from the car and install Jake's studs using the drill guide block to get the hole straight and in the correct place before you try to bolt the head on anyway. There is a very good and valid reason for using guide blocks for DIY work: They take the place of a LOT of expensive machine shop boring equipment in a one-off situation.
IF, and only IF you can sit the head on the block and screw an old wire-brushed bolt (the new bolts have thread sealant ??) into the buggered hole by finger pressure only, as a test, you may have got away with murder. Any binding and you're in trouble.
EDIT - I just went back and looked at posts 1 -10. If cylinder 7 was full of coolant and you had a "bad knock while accelerating", you may have a cracked piston or bent rod on top of your other problems.
Don't let Submariner409 scare you. You did not ruin the block and you will not have any problem at all with the hole being off .062, because the head bolt is plenty long, and there is also play in the head bolt hole in the head itself. So the little bit it may flex will not hurt anything. Head bolts are not hard and brittle, they are tough and flexable and will not break if they bend 062. The worst thing that you can do is try to sraighten the hole by using a drill guide, because you will remove too much material out of the block, and you will end up with very little thread for the insert to grip. If that happens you will be replacing the block for sure.
OK I got the heads on with not that much of a problem, ran new bolt into all 20 holes with finger pressure then 30 ft pounds. To my suprise the buggered holes felt and torqued like all the other holes. 3 passes @60 deg.ea. I thought i could cheat the timing buy just reinstalling the sprockets at 12 o clock with the chains then install silver tensioner guide but i have to relieve the tensioner pad, so im taking off the front cover through the passenger wheel well.
One question: Can you turn the crankshaft by re-installing the bolt after you pull the pulley off. Dont have a J-39946 crankshaft socket, any other way to turn engine with out that 50 $ tool.
Thanks for all the replys, i took a break completley after the buggered holes to debate to finish it.
PS: Whats the best way to lock the flywheel? Im thinkin just take out the starter and get somebody to hold my 2ft screwdriver down there
Automobile(s): 1997 ETC (GAVE TO STEPSON 2011), 2000 DTS (RIP)
FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ
Re: Check out my Headgasket Job in the car!!!!
I used a starter bolt, after the started was removed, bolted through the starter opening, through the flywheel, and into the torque converter. to keep the flywheel from turning to unbolt the crankshaft bolt. To turn the crankshaft, yes you can re-install the bolt and use it to turn the crank, or you can use a screwdriver on the flywheel teeth, through the starter opening - very easy to turn there due to the greater mechanical advantage the large gear gives you.
A couple of my holes were drilled a little bit off center, when doing Norm's, and I had no problem at all either.
Yup, that method works fine. You dont want to turn the crank with the heads on and the chains off. That's a good way to hit valves with pistons
Thanks guys so will i know if a valve hits a piston ??(sound,etc) the heads are bolted on and pins at 12 o clock so how do i turn the crank 7 times to line up, just install the chains on spockets while i turn. Will that through the cams off?