Northstar Repair without inserts
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Northstar Repair without inserts in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Photo of one of my studded blocks - this completely eliminates the need for inserts... This can be done even ...
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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Northstar Repair without inserts

    Photo of one of my studded blocks - this completely eliminates the need for inserts...



    This can be done even on engines that have had timeserts before. They are custom machined.

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    AJxtcman's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by 97EldoCoupe View Post
    Photo of one of my studded blocks - this completely eliminates the need for inserts...



    This can be done even on engines that have had timeserts before. They are custom machined.
    What size threads are the stud portion that are in block?
    11mm X 1.50mm will not hold and I can see that is not what those are.

    Studs will pull out of the block unless the thread pitch is changed and I am not 100% on board with that.
    Are you going to take some torque out of the head now?

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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    That's believe it or not 5/8" UNC in the block and 1/2" UNC coming out of the block. These studs have more grip in the block than anything else out there. The reason I do it this way is because when torquing down the heads, the torquing is done with nuts on top (steel on steel) so you're not twisting a bolt into aluminum threads under torque. This is a lot safer for the block. I'd bet every last dollar I have that it would take 20+ years for these studs to pull out of the block, probably more. They're all countersunk approx. 1/8" below the deck surface.

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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    I've been torquing them at 80 ft. lbs. The studs are high alloy, they will handle it. To be safe I'd recommend staying at approx. 75 ft. lbs.

    Torquing the heads at factory spec (M11 x 1.5) you give it 22 ft. lbs. (if I remember correctly) and three rotations of 60 degrees. According to my torque wrench that wound up being 60 ft. lbs. when all was done.

    And yes, that is a 4.0 Aurora block. The only difference between the 4.0/4.6 is the bore size (and some casting #s)

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    sofireguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Wow. I want to see how this turns out. Do you think it will work with the 4.6L Northstar?? Where did you get those studs and where did you have that done? I want to maybe see how that would turn out on my current Seville engine after I pull it and replace it with another engine. It would be a back-up engine.

    I always thought that it would be smart to use studs rather than bolts either way on any engine?? Then again, it is an aluminum block.

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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    I've done this on many cars already- 4.6 Northstars too. I custom machined them using my lathe. It is a good idea on any engine, but especially the Northstar, because when you go to torque the heads, it already has good grip in the block. You're no longer turning the bolt in the block when you're torquing. Instead, it will just "pull" on the stud. And there's no chance of pulling the stud up or damaging the new aluminum threads in the block by torquing. It's one piece all the way up, rather than a skinny fine-thread bolt being threaded into an insert.

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    sofireguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Mind sending me an E-mail?

    sofire70@yahoo.com

    Edit: I can't send private messages.

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    sofireguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    I saw that you were making kits for this on another thread. I was wanting to possibly look into your kit that you have come up with.

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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Email sent Sofireguy.

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    STSj90 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Nice! Let us know EXactly what was done please! Step by step. Please. I would love to do this on my N* if the HG's go. Looks preeeeettyy

    let us know the full cost also please. How are the northstars holding up that had this done? And what kinda people are driveing them? I hope they have been tested under Hard conditions.

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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by 97EldoCoupe View Post
    I've been torquing them at 80 ft. lbs. The studs are high alloy, they will handle it. To be safe I'd recommend staying at approx. 75 ft. lbs.

    Torquing the heads at factory spec (M11 x 1.5) you give it 22 ft. lbs. (if I remember correctly) and three rotations of 60 degrees. According to my torque wrench that wound up being 60 ft. lbs. when all was done.

    And yes, that is a 4.0 Aurora block. The only difference between the 4.0/4.6 is the bore size (and some casting #s)
    1993-1999 Head Bolt Torque
    • First Pass ----- 30 lb ft
    • Second Pass -- +70°
    • Third Pass ---- +60°
    • Fourth Pass -- +60° (190 Degrees total)

    I think we are looking at this 2 separate ways.

    Lets say the head is 78mm thick from the deck to the top of the bolt hole @ 72°
    I feel that the growth of the head in this area is too great @ 225° for a hardened stud and stock thread pitch.

    Lets say it grows 1mm. I know it should be that much. What would the weak link be?
    I feel that the weak link is the material used in casting the Block.

    Will the 5/8 nc inserts work with hardened studs? I would think this would be determined by the cut and clearance of the insert and the block.

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    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    AJ according to what you posted on the Fiero Forums, it's 22 ft. lbs., then three turns of 60 degrees. Also, I see what you're getting at with the heat expansion thing. What about the stock head bolts? They're hard steel as well. Thermal expansion is something we won't get away from.

    These are studs - no inserts at all.

    My 97 Eldorado and my 98 STS are both running these studs in the block. My '98 STS is the VIN 9 300 hp engine. I run that thing hard. If I break it by running red-line when ever I feel like it, I know I can fix it. So I'm not worried. It's about a year and a half ago that I did the work on my '97 Eldo, still running strong. My 98 was done 8 months ago. No issues. Not a temperature spike, no coolant loss, Nothing. On either car. Both cars have overheated since due to a blown heater hose on the STS and a water pump belt on the Eldo. Fixed them both, same head gaskets, NO ISSUES. Both cars get WOT when ever my right foot gets itchy. I've done a number of customers cars with these studs, some are even on these forums. I've done the HGs on quite a few Cadilacs & Auroras- #38 is in my shop, ready to fire up. Only one complaint of an overheating engine since. And that car had a bad thermostat. Swapped in a new one, and it was good to go. No HG failures. That's a record I have planned to keep.

    The aluminum will ALWAYS be a weak link. So we fix the blocks the best way we know how. Some will say inserts/timeserts/norms, I say one piece, solid steel studs.

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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    I checked the FSM and it is 22 ft. lbs., and three turns of 60 degrees.

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    STSj90 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Awsome man, Glad to hear its holding up good. You know what would be cool..Is to open up one of the studded northstars after like 100,000 miles or more to check everything CLOSLY.. Would be cool to do that. I know its not easy to just pull the engine to check stuff out and is kinda retarded in a way. But i think it would be Plane AWESOME!

    Or could check it after 200,000 or 150,000 miles. If all is well and looks damn good. You could post up pics and info and say ''this is one of our engine's after xxx,000 miles.''


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    Re: Northstar Repair without inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by 97EldoCoupe View Post
    I've done this on many cars already- 4.6 Northstars too. I custom machined them using my lathe. It is a good idea on any engine, but especially the Northstar, because when you go to torque the heads, it already has good grip in the block. You're no longer turning the bolt in the block when you're torquing. Instead, it will just "pull" on the stud. And there's no chance of pulling the stud up or damaging the new aluminum threads in the block by torquing. It's one piece all the way up, rather than a skinny fine-thread bolt being threaded into an insert.
    what do you, or will you ever, charge for the studs?

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