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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Is this the beginning of the end for my STS? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; If the car is running cool and your gauge is lying its the temperature sensor....
  1. #16
    misfit6794 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    If the car is running cool and your gauge is lying its the temperature sensor.

  2. #17
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    I thought about that. What if its NOT the Cluster, its a bad temp sensor and a bad fuel sensor. But the fuel thing I can live with, since it has only happened twice and it only happens when theres like NO gas in the car. Any other time its fine. Whats the temp sensor with labor gonna run if you know

  3. #18
    ryannel2003's Avatar
    ryannel2003 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolvdog316 View Post
    I thought about that. What if its NOT the Cluster, its a bad temp sensor and a bad fuel sensor. But the fuel thing I can live with, since it has only happened twice and it only happens when theres like NO gas in the car. Any other time its fine. Whats the temp sensor with labor gonna run if you know
    At my dealer than is an '02 Eldorado that does the exact same thing with the gas gauge. I think they are ordering a new cluster or sending the old one in to get fixed. From what they told me, it was pretty expensive.

  4. #19
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    The temp sensor, can I do that? Or is it one of those damn jobs that require tools and stuff I dont have. Also about what would that run? For the part and labor if I cant

  5. #20
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    The coolant temperature sensor is maybe $8. Labor is less than an hour @ $80. Fuel tank sensors, changes, and recalls have been in and out of here for years. Keep the tank above 1/4. Period.

    You can change the temp sensor if you're willing to get dirty. 6" down and under the right of the throttlebody. PITA.

    In your first post: water crossover gaskets. Common source of leaks. Unholy bitch to do. Temp sensor in crossover. Bite the $850 bullet and have the dealer/shop do it all. Then you have someone to fall back on..........

    Can't you program your DIC to display coolant temps ?? '97 ?

  6. #21
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Im not sure about the Display, I haven't really played with it. Im just not sold on the whole cluster replace thing. If my car isn't overheating, then replace the sensor and if I am wrong im out 90 bucks? Makes more sense to me. What he did today was change the coolant, and it hasn't leaked hardly at all yet. Again, the first shop is the one that advised me about the temp sensor and replacing all the gaskets and Crossover stuff. But they wanted 1100 bucks to do it. Did seem kinda high. But I dont know anything about tweaking or programming my Display

  7. #22
    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    THIS ONLY WORKS FOR THE FOLLOWING MODELS!!!
    96-02 Eldorado, ETC, ESC
    96-97 Seville, STS, SLS
    96-99 Deville, Concourse, DeElegance

    ~~~~~TO ADD COOLANT TEMPERATURE DIC MESSAGE~~~~~
    1) Press the OFF and PASS WARMER (referred to from here as WARMER) buttons simultaneously to enter diagnostic mode.

    2) Let the system read any codes it has stored. You will ultimately be presented with "PCM?". You will answer with the fan speed control button. UP = yes and DOWN = no.

    3) Press DOWN until you are presented with "IPC?". On mine, it's the very next prompt. When you get to the "IPC?" prompt, press UP to enter the IPC area (Instrument Panel Cluster).

    4) Press DOWN until you are presented with "IPC OVERRIDE?". Press UP to enter the override area.

    5) Scroll down (with the DOWN button) until you get to Option E. Wait a second or two, and the override value will appear to the right where the TRIP ODOMETER normally reads. Yours will probably read "43". That's what mine read when I first did this.

    Below are the Option E values:

    - Coolant Temp message (64)
    - Battery Volts message (32)
    - Engine RPM message (16)
    - Avg Mph message (8)
    - Mph message (4)
    - Fuel Used message (2)
    - Inst Mpg message (1)

    The stock displays (for analog E/K displays) are Battery Volts, Avg Mph, Fuel Used, and Inst Mpg, for a total value of "43".

    6) Use the WARMER button to increment the value of the override. In this case, we want to add Coolant Temp, so we're going to add "64" to "43", or "107". Press the WARMER button repeatedly to increment the value from "43" to "107".

    If you make a mistake, you can decrement the value by pressing the COOLER button.

    7) To permanently save the new value, hold the FRONT DEFROST and the A/C buttons simultaneously until the new override value flashes once.

    8) You're done. Press OFF repeatedly to "back out" of the diagnostic system. You'll probably need to press OFF 5 or 6 times to get out of the deep "menu structure" you're in now.

    Now, the coolant temp (in units specified) should be one "stop" along the revolving door we call the DIC. If you are in metric units, the coolant temp will read in *C. If you are in standard units, it'll read in *F.

    This will get you the temperture displayed under your tach and speedometer, but it comes from the same sensor that drives the analog gauge on the dash so if your sensor is bad the reading here will jump around, just like your gauge is doing.

    Your gas gauge problem is a problem with the sender in the tank. Its a 20 dollar part, BUT the tank has to come out to get at the fuel pump with the sender on it so its a major undertaking. Probably best just to keep your tank level above 1/4 and reset your gallons used display to zero on every tank fillup.

  8. #23
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Yeah thanks so much, will do that Monday. I think Im going to just tell them to put in a new temp sensor, leave the gas problem alone and go from there. Since its not overheating Ill just replace that and then drive the car for a while. BTW, what the hell does WOT mean :|

  9. #24
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?


  10. #25
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Talked to the Mechanic, still thinks its a bad cluster, but he will do what I tell him, but I havea question. Can a bad cluster only mess with my temp gauge? It wouldn't mess with my RPMs or Speedometer or anything like that? I just find it hard to believe that the cluster is bad when A)I dont think the gas gauge problem is actually a problem with the cluster, so that only leaves the wrong Temp Gauge. I can't fathom a wrong cluster only affecting one point of it. Seems more logical that it would be the Temp Sensor. But if I'm wrong, I'm out 150 bucks. Hrmmm....Decisions...

  11. #26
    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    I don't know how senders can go bad like you described, they are just varisters that vary resistance thru themselves due to temperature changes. They obviously will fail, but they usually fail open or closed causing the dash gauge to indicate either full cold, or full hot. A signal from a device like a varistor (fuel tank sender is actually a potentiometer and it has moving parts that wear out) that jumps around randomly is much more likely to be a wiring problem (loose connection, chafed wires, etc) than a bad sensor. Don't know what the failure rate of the dash cluster is as opposed to anything else in the circuit.

    If you were mechanically (electrically) inclined you could buy a potentiometer disconnect the temperature sender and place the pot into the circuit in its place, set the resistance of the pot to equal some standard reading on your dash and drive around for a while. If the guage continues to bounce around, you know its not the sender, and the problem is either in the wiring or the dash itself. Probably cost you about 5 bucks for a pot and a couple of 6" wire leads.

  12. #27
    wolvdog316 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Well got my final update, and boy did the mechanic **** me over HUGE. Called me yesterday said Yep bad cluster. CPU board is fried or some crap. Cost...1600 bucks.. and 2 weeks without my car. I say no thank you. First off is that even possible? Everything works fine on it, except the fuel gauge but thats cause of the bad sendor. I thought if the CPU board was fried the thing wouldn't work. Not sure. Anyways thats that, go to pick up the car, and I be a sumbitch if I dont have deep scratches on my trunk. :| Gunk on my left tire guard, and black gunk on my left mirror. Get inside and the cover that goes over the dash where the Headlamps suggested sensor is is gone. In my back seat, so they put it on and I notice my damn sensors are gone :| Told me to leave the car they would fix the scratches on the trunk and find my sensors, says they must be inside the dash somewhere :| I brought the car home tonight I am seriously scared to leave my car there anymore. I 100% think there is nothing wrong with my cluster. I think at the most its a temp sensor. I think 1600 bucks was outrageously high. And I think they treated my car like it was a pile of junk. ive taken photos and Im going to upload them tomorrow, but im at a loss of words

    Do I risk them fixing it, but potentially screwing something inside my car up? Other than that, car ran fine. Not hot, I even did the WOT thing like somebody told me to do. Ive just never been so damn mad in all my life. I would NEVER do that to another persons vehicle. I durno. Anyways I still think 1600 bucks to repair a Cluster is way too much when the dealership and the auto shop they outsource too said like 350-500 Max...

  13. #28
    chubbyranger is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    Here's another thread on cluster replacement for comparison:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...placement.html

    As for your mechanic - do not have them fix it, get the car back and never go there again. Sounds like they know jack about Cadillac and would be happy to take your cash.

  14. #29
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    There was a thread or two some time ago concerning light sensors - it seems they are not really tight in their snap mounts and tend to fall down in the dash. You have some fishing to do.

    Personally, I would stay away from whoever this mechanic/shop is........

  15. #30
    chubbyranger is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Is this the beginning of the end for my STS?

    On most Cads the twilight sensor is straight in front of the driver pointing up. If there are two domes sticking up on either side of the defrost vent those are sun-load sensors for the climate control.

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