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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; How much nitrous do you plan on using? If you use a lot then maybe work on a tune to ...
  1. #46
    BlackCaddy87 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    How much nitrous do you plan on using? If you use a lot then maybe work on a tune to retard the timing a little...that or get some VERY good high octane gas to mix with it.

    Try to get a video for us when your at the track

  2. #47
    Highline Cady's Avatar
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    It's already tuned. (Thanx AJ) Don't need to retard timing, and right now it's blowing 125 shot, and I'm going to the track as soon as it doesn't rain on a weekend. They are calling for rain this weekend maybe they'll be wrong, again. Already on second bottle!!!

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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input




  4. #49
    Highline Cady's Avatar
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Sweet!!! Looks great. I like those switches much better. One last detail to take care of. Oooo I'm excited. Tell Jodie we're cruising rain, sleet, or snow!!! LOL

  5. #50
    BlackCaddy87 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    maybe invest in some drag radials.

    this is one very sexy cadillac!!!

  6. #51
    Highline Cady's Avatar
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Oh thanks, man. Ya AJ and myself have already been tinkering with that idea. We have a little bit of test and fine tuning to do but first I have to get both bottles filled. Ya I know I'm using it everywhere. Having way to much fun with my new toy.

    Planning on getting it to the track this weekend but I don't think mother nature is going to agree with that. I also have to hassle AJ to help me fine tune it a little before the track so I can really keep an eye out for anything that happens at the track. So far so good and we're blowing quite a fair amount through it, and a bunch of it (2 bottles already this week).

  7. #52
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    I called Santa and he was on the other line, so I had to play the email tag game. I asked him what I should have the EGT limit set at. He replied with a not so good answer and a lead in question. He said that it depends on the location of the sensor. Yeah! I replied that I was running 790° C without the N2O. He replied 1100° to 1200° will be safe. I have the EGT limit set at 800° or 850° and this is turning off the N2O. I want to be on the safe side. I am going to bump it to 1000° today. I am going to set a Lean limit of 12.6 to 1. This is a complex setting.

    The Wideband module has the following inputs that can be installed.
    • RPM
    • Boost/Map Sensor
    • TPS
    • User 5V

    The Alarm/Trigger box can turn the N2O off if the following occur.
    • AFR too rich - The alarm activates when too rich mixture is detected.
    • AFR too lean - The alarm activates when too lean mixture is detected.
    • EGT too high - The alarm activates when EGT exceeds a safe user selected level.
    • RPM too high - Shift-light functionality with a bonus of audio alarm and a relay trigger.
    • TPS too high - The alarm activates when TPS exceeds a selected level.
    • USER1 Input too high - The alarm activated if a sensor connected to the USER1 input exceeds a selected level.
    • USER1 Input too low - The alarm activated if a sensor connected to the USER1 input is lower than a selected level

    I have the EGT handled, but I need a Lean setting and maybe a rich setting.
    This is my plan for the lean setting for the 12.6 to 1
    I plan on hooking up the USER 1 input to the N2O Solenoid 12V feed wire. I need to install a 11000 resistor in line. This gives me 5V on that wire.
    The reason I need 2 inputs is because is you are cruising at 14.7 to 1 the Alarm will be going off. I only want the 12.6 to in affect with the N2O on.

    We were playing around the other night. We had shut the bottle off and decide to show off the ability to smoke the tires. it was great until all the extra fuel about killed the engine.
    I was thinking I need a rich limit. We would use this if the bottle goes dry. No need to wash out a set of plugs.
    I was thinking 10 to 1 with the N2O on for a rich limit.

    This would give me an EGT limit, Rich limit, and a Lean limit can't think of any thing else I need

  8. #53
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Keep an eye out, you may have a problem if it kicks off for being too lean. Wet systems tend to have a lean spike at activation (especially if it's a returnless system) because the intial opening of the fuel noid drains out the fuel rails and it takes a second for the fuel pump to restore the pressure. Shouldn't be as bad on a return style system, but on a returnless with the regulator back at the fuel pump it's a fact of life. You may have to adjust the sensitivity of your a/f alarm. Best bet is to throw it on a dyno with a wideband and see if you get a spike.

  9. #54
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Hey just thought I'd give an update. Probably going to upgrade the fuel pump try to minimize the lean spike at activation, also going to grab a bottle heater and a blow down tube for track use. Pretty much everything you have acknowledged NHRATA01 has come to fruition. Everything is looking fairly good on the datalogger, besides the initial lean spike, but all and all almost ready to get her to the track for some dialing in, might go up to 150 shot from 125. Looks like that will work best with a higher volume pump.

    It does haul a** though, can't wait to get her dialed in perfect, she's close.

    Any other useful tidbits NHRATA01?

    And, of course, thanks again.

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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Cool, well good luck with it.

    The pump should help a little, but it may still be present. I've upgraded from factory to a walbro 255 with a hotwire kit so it pulls voltage directly off the altenator (to eliminate voltage drop across the factory harnesses), and I was still getting a small spike at activation of the 100 shot, somehwere around 15:1 for a brief moment before settling in around 11.5:1. You can try to further minimize it by running a shorter fuel line from the noid to the jet compared to the nitrous line. 900 psi of liquified gas will move a heck of alot quicker than 60 psi of fuel.

  11. #56
    Highline Cady's Avatar
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Ya I figure the spike will always be there at engagement, on this particular setup, but I just want to make it less or a quicker spike. Otherwise much like yours it settles out fine. I don't engage it until it shifts into 2nd so I'm at 4200-4500 RPM's at engagement and that's the only spike, it's fine right after all the way through half of 3rd where I've been letting off at just over a hundred.

    I did purchase a pressure activated bottle heater, a little more expensive but I figured what the hell at this point. It comes in tomorrow, I'll pick it up while I'm getting both bottles filled, again. It is addictive!!! And just way to much fun!!!

  12. #57
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    We have seen 812°C EGT without Nitrous.
    Santa Clause told me I could run 1200°C with no problem. This is related to the placement of the EGT. The Alarm Box setting won't go over 1000°C. At 1000° we will be safe.

    The lean setting is 12.6 with the Nitrous. This setting is a "Complex Setting" The alarm would be going off all the time because under normal conditions we are 14.7 to 1. I hooked up an input so that I get 5V on a input wire when the Nitrous in on.
    I have a Complex setting of Leaner than 12.6 and the 5V Nitrous input. New problem. Lean spike. Then the alarm shut off the Nitrous and the car starts to Jerk Off.

    The General sent us some cool tools to monitor Fuel Pressure in the last few years. We got a Digital Fuel Pressure Gauge. This has a Min/Max recording option (Similar to a Fluke DMM). The other tool is high dollar and I have not used it to monitor fuel pressure yet.
    I am going to hook the Digital Gauge up to the Northstar with N2O and see how much it drops when we make a run without N2O. I may see a tip in drop, but I hope it shoots way up and never tappers off. Then I plan to make a few runs with the N2O. We enable the N2O only after shifting into 2nd and we have been WOT for a few seconds. If we get a drop in fuel pressure when the N2O engages or it tappers down I am going to install a BIG fuel pump.

    Something as basic as fuel pressure/volume that can not be checked with a needle gauge because of the duration of the condition.

  13. #58
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    If I hammer the gas without spraying, my fuel pressure will usually drop from about 65psi down to 60 for a brief moment, and then build back up. Does about the same on the spray with the initial hit, though I have a hard time watching the fuel pressure gauge and shift light at the same time.

    Really its going to be a fact of life on a returnless setup, even with a big pump. Alot of folks will convert to a return line fuel rail to reduce the effect.

    You could also go with a standalone fuel tank just for the nitrous, mounted in the engine bay if you can find some room under there. Then you can keep the small tank filled with race gas, and it will only be consumed when spraying. Just plumb it right to the fuel solenoid.

  14. #59
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    If I hammer the gas without spraying, my fuel pressure will usually drop from about 65psi down to 60 for a brief moment, and then build back up. Does about the same on the spray with the initial hit, though I have a hard time watching the fuel pressure gauge and shift light at the same time.

    Really its going to be a fact of life on a returnless setup, even with a big pump. Alot of folks will convert to a return line fuel rail to reduce the effect.

    You could also go with a standalone fuel tank just for the nitrous, mounted in the engine bay if you can find some room under there. Then you can keep the small tank filled with race gas, and it will only be consumed when spraying. Just plumb it right to the fuel solenoid.
    This is not a Returnless System

  15. #60
    eldorado1 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: How to install Nitrous the correct way! I need input

    The fuel line needs to be short. If you ran it all over the engine bay, make it more direct shot. Solenoid to nozzle shouldn't be more than a foot max.

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