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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Originally Posted by bacardi Just trying to understand...Even if I'm lucky enough to successively remove every head bolt, replace the ...
  1. #121
    AJxtcman's Avatar
    AJxtcman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi View Post
    Just trying to understand...Even if I'm lucky enough to successively remove every head bolt, replace the gasket and install new bolts there's a high rate of failure? Only norms kit or 97's stud kit will permanently (relative term) fix the problem? Am I correct?
    That is how I see it if you have a deteriorated block. That is why the bolts pull free

  2. #122
    ferchja is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    After seeing the videos, I spotted this on Google Maps.

    Anyone know who this belongs to?



    Sorry had to do it One great looking car, and one hell of a speedster.

    Jeremy

  3. #123
    ferchja is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    Thanks for the time today. I am interested in the thought of putting a 2005 engine in the 98 STS. What cost/parts would be needed? Before I dump $1G into this engine on the stud kit, if I can spend it better somewhere else with more benefits then I would.

    If you have time, give me a call...262-825-8005

    If not no worries, I know you are busy. If you have a link on this topic already let me know. Will dive into it deeper.

    Thanks again.

    Jeremy

  4. #124
    tateos's Avatar
    tateos is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    jeremy:

    A 2005 engine will not easily be installed in a 1998 car - AJ and Jake and others can elaborate, but the easiest and least expensive solution is to repair that engine or replace with a '97-'99 (not positive on the years) engine that can be and has been properly inserted or studded.

    Richard Moore

  5. #125
    dnihan is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    what about these stud kits im seeing, seems like they would be far better than any insert. i am about to do my 98 and i am planning on studs. dan

  6. #126
    tateos's Avatar
    tateos is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    I did Norm's - worked out fine - I would have done studs if they had been available - excellent product!

  7. #127
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    93eldodave is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    What about a stud kit? on a good block with no repairs..

  8. #128
    stssteve is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    My 98 STS' head gaskets failed in April 2008 with 121K mi on the car, a couple of the original bolts had let go a bit as well. I had owned the car since 50K mi and am meticulous with the care and maintenance. Changed coolant every 2 years, car was 1 happy owner (bought a new 2003 STS when they sold me this one) before me dealer maintained and is dealer maintained religiously by me. I was smelling coolant on and off for almost 1 year before they actually failed, I was topping up the overfill with about 6oz every 2 weeks consistently. The dealer had replaced the water pump and gasket, thermostat housing, upper rad hose. I could still hear noise that sounded like it was coming from the heater core and made a slurping sound. I now know that was exhaust gas getting into the coolant. It eventually totally failed dumping coolant onto the ground on the front left side where the rad had also cracked.
    I noticed Jake's ad locally when my car was getting the outrageous estimate at the dealer of over $4500 to do that and replace the rad which had also blown at the same time. Jake did the HG job with his stud kit and Fel-Pro's. It is now 25K and over a year later with mixed driving (city traffic getting to the highway daily) and not a hint of an issue. I truly believe this product will outlast any insert application. I would recomend his studkit and work to anyone.

  9. #129
    mikelawson is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    How would a steel stud out last a steel insert of the same size? Both are 5/8X11 thread, so the weakness is STILL and ALWAYS will be the aluminum block. I'm not sure why people struggle with this idea. I have seen failed timeserts, but in reality the steel timeserts are fine, it's the block that has failed since the timeserts external threads are still fine threaded. Studs or inserts are not the end all solution. I feel confident that 10 years from now these cars that I have repaired and others with studs will still have head gasket failures. The bolts may not fail, but the weakness is obviously the graphite gaskets. Graphite is easier to seal, but why has the industry moved to MLS gaskets,...... simple reliability. If the original setup lasts 10 years, if get another 10 years out of the gaskets, isn't it best to use the cheapest repair possible? A 98 Seville will be 21 years old by then and worth about 500.00, so it's best to save every penny possible. I would love to use studs and cometic mls gaskets, but that would add 400.00 to the repair, and doesn't make economic sense. I've offered this to several customers (Norms inserts with ARP head studs), but once I explain this to them, they always choose the factory setup.

  10. #130
    bigds01 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    Hey,

    I am looking at using a 93 Seville SLS in a 24hours of lemons race. The car has the signs of a blown HG. If I do norm's kit, and replace the gasket is that enough to keep this car running well or do I need to do something else?

    Thanks

  11. #131
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigds01 View Post
    Hey,

    I am looking at using a 93 Seville SLS in a 24hours of lemons race. The car has the signs of a blown HG. If I do norm's kit, and replace the gasket is that enough to keep this car running well or do I need to do something else?

    Thanks
    http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/rules/
    4: VEHICLE PRICE

    * 4.1: Total Investment in Vehicle Can Not Exceed $500: Except for items described in Rules 4.2 and 4.3, the total spent to purchase and prepare any car may not exceed $500.
    + 4.1.1: Lame-Ass Rationalizations: Cars that "should be" worth $500 don't count; cars that "were worth $500" before you spent another $2000 to fix them don't count; cars you've owned for 20 years and spent more than $500 on during that time don't count; "it would have been worth $500 if it didn't already have a cage" doesn't count. Five hundred dollars means five hundred frickin' dollars.

    Unless you want this to happen:

  12. #132
    97EldoCoupe is offline Owner of Northstar Performance
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikelawson View Post
    How would a steel stud out last a steel insert of the same size? Both are 5/8X11 thread, so the weakness is STILL and ALWAYS will be the aluminum block.
    Mike, there's a reason I have people emailing me who are practially your neighbors who say they would rather bring their Cadillac to me for repair than bring it to you and have inserts installed.

    Inserts of any kind - this creates two sets of threads to fail. Do you know how fine M11x1.5 is? My patent lawyer in NYC set me up with an engineer who took the time (at my expense) to calculate the thread engagement surface area of various different thread types and the 5/8 coarse came out on top. I have the caculations, CAD files, etc. on DVD. Now how much surface area is the head bolt grabbing inside the insert? Are Norm's inserts quenched and tempered? What alloy steel are these made from? Will they expand at all in diameter once the head is torqued down? I had two engineers from that law firm visit my shop and I showed them my repair method - I explained the aluminum expansion issue and everything with them. The one engineer has a lot of experience in the automotive industry. Then I showed them a time-sert and told them about Norm's. I asked them if they would change anything with the studs. They said it was perfect- the thread type usage, the hardness, the alloy used,

    What gives the best torque distribution? OEM head bolts that have threadlocker on them, as long and springy as they are, torqued inside an insert? Or a one piece, heat treated stud that's already fully engaged in the aluminum block- torqued with a fine thread nut on top?

    Why are you only offering 1 year warranty on your repair?

    Mike had you decided to switch to studs I would have set you up as an INNRS member and we'd be working together to help Northstar owners. I'd be sending you work when I get a call from someone in your area. I've sent GM repair center over 6 head gasket jobs already and a couple of engine swap jobs. I could have probably done this for you too. I don't charge them a dime for referrals because they use my studs and I stand behind them. You made your decision.

    I don't say too much about Norm's, or you, because I don't believe in constantly bashing my competitors. Do you know that great things get accomplished when people work together?

    I am passionate about what I do. I eat, sleep, and breathe Northstars. I have about 22 Cadillacs on my 1.67 acres right now, 4 Auroras, and one Bonneville GXP. And pretty much my whole family drives them. Do you at least drive one on a daily basis? I'm testing my own work every day with a WOT run...

    You go your way, and I'll go mine. There's so many head gaskets failing that you will keep busy and it won't hurt my business at all. Just remember if you continue to bash the studs I sell, or ask me if I re-use old gaskets and cut corners, you are then giving me full rights to do the same. But I won't- because I don't need to. Most people can see the difference and why my studs are the better repair.

    I guess in a way I should thank you- when your competition starts publicly bashing your products/services you KNOW you're doing something right!

  13. #133
    postman2000's Avatar
    postman2000 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    I've been reading this thread, and feel that i will share my experience with jake(97 eldo). In june of 2009 i brought my 2000 deville up to him with my dad. It was about 650 miles each way.. We trailered it up there.. That was an experience! I had local options, but jake came highly recommended to me.. He completed the job in about 3 days and the car has never run better.. He treated me and my dad with the utmost respect and was a very friendly and knowlegeable person.. To date i have had no problems.. About 13,000 miles later.. Local caddy dealers wanted $4,200 to just do the head gaskets.. And they would only guarantee them for 3,000 miles.. I asked them why such a short warranty... And they said it was because the time serts have a history of pulling out of the block.. In my opinion, take the trip to canada.. Great man, great engineer.. If you love your caddy the studs are the way to go!!

  14. #134
    ThumperPup's Avatar
    ThumperPup is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    just thought id ask this how come a 2003-2004 wont drop into a 2000 wouldnt i tbe a direct fit and woulndt the engine from the 2004 be the Y wich is the SLS Onlymodel theymade for the U.S in that year work ?
    or is there more to it just curious about tha

  15. #135
    dlshande is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Root Cause of Head gasket Failure and a Fix?

    I have a 97 etc and the hg just let loose on me. I have 112k on the motor and was wondering where I could find 97's head stud kit?

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