Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Does anyone know if using a JB weld type of hardening adhesive instead of the 277 loctite on first installaion ...
  1. #1
    ss6r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1998 Cadillac Seville STS
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    St. Clair Shores, MI
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17

    Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Does anyone know if using a JB weld type of hardening adhesive instead of the 277 loctite on first installaion timeserts is recommended. It was recommended to me by a GM dealer mechanic that has worked on N* timesert repairs before. He said do my self a favor and put a lite film of JB weld on the each timesert before their installed,use it instead of the 277 Loctite. I dont want to doubt his judgment but I don't want to cause any further issues either that he may not know about. Any thoughts?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Woodstock Ill.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    73,300

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    If you read up on Loctite, you will find that it is an anaerobic action that is created when between two metals (male & female threads) and hardens and locks to two together. DISCLAIMER: I may not be explaining this exactly correct. JB Weld is a great product and it has saved me several times, but it meeds air to cure. Not sure how much air will be available in the threads once the Timesert is installed. I don't know, sounds feasible, but I would probably stick with what the manufacturer recommends. Just my $0.02. Who am I to argue with an experienced tech.

  4. #3
    ss6r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1998 Cadillac Seville STS
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    St. Clair Shores, MI
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Thanks Ranger, you make a good point about the amount of air to the threads. I think I will use the recommended loctite since it has been tested by GM . Do know any statistics on the lifespan of timeserted N* engines after being repaired?

  5. #4
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Woodstock Ill.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    73,300

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Our old Guru (GM powertrain engineer) used to say that they'd pull 'em down after 250K and there was no ridge in the cylinder and you could still see the factory crosshatch hone pattern, so I say after you fix the weak link, it should run for a long long time.

  6. #5
    Destroyer's Avatar
    Destroyer is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): '67 Cutlass,'92 Z28, '12 Crosstour, '12 Cube,00 GMC 4500
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    6,167

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Our old Guru (GM powertrain engineer) used to say that they'd pull 'em down after 250K and there was no ridge in the cylinder and you could still see the factory crosshatch hone pattern, so I say after you fix the weak link, it should run for a long long time.
    ...........and there are those on here who have had the timeserts done and claim its just a bandaid fix and will go out real fast. There is usually more than one side to every story. When my h/g's blew I got rid of the POS and didn't timesert so I cannot attest to the longetivity of a timeserted N* and obviously neither can Ranger, but for some reason.........................he does.

  7. #6
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Woodstock Ill.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    73,300

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    I don't think I have ever heard of a properly Timeserted block fail again. Have you?

  8. #7
    Destroyer's Avatar
    Destroyer is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): '67 Cutlass,'92 Z28, '12 Crosstour, '12 Cube,00 GMC 4500
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    6,167

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I don't think I have ever heard of a properly Timeserted block fail again. Have you?
    Yeah, there were definately some posts about timeserts failing. I'm not gonna look for the posts but they weren' that long ago. Having the block timeserted "properly" is another story. Nobody knows if its going to be "properly" done till after its done. It is another risk.

  9. #8
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Woodstock Ill.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    73,300

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    I guess that could be said for any repair on any car.

  10. #9
    Destroyer's Avatar
    Destroyer is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): '67 Cutlass,'92 Z28, '12 Crosstour, '12 Cube,00 GMC 4500
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    6,167

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I guess that could be said for any repair on any car.
    Very true but this is a high buck repair so its a little different than a head gasket on an old Chevy for instance. Plus, the block itself can get screwed up in the process. Doesn't Cadillac recommend changing the motor out vs repairing the heads?.

  11. #10
    flyinlow is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Custom mid engine Mclaren w/twin turbo northstar in process
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Spring Creek NV
    Posts
    35

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    If you read up on Loctite, you will find that it is an anaerobic action that is created when between two metals (male & female threads) and hardens and locks to two together. DISCLAIMER: I may not be explaining this exactly correct. JB Weld is a great product and it has saved me several times, but it meeds air to cure. Not sure how much air will be available in the threads once the Timesert is installed. I don't know, sounds feasible, but I would probably stick with what the manufacturer recommends. Just my $0.02. Who am I to argue with an experienced tech.
    Actually JB Weld is an epoxy and cures due to the chemical reaction between the two parts and doesnt require air to cure
    My only concern with JB Weld is that it is hard and the steel insert and aluminum block expand at diff. rates
    It may or may not matter but is something to consider.

  12. #11
    CadillacSTS42005's Avatar
    CadillacSTS42005 is offline Banned
    Automobile(s): 2005 STS4 1SG: GM Acc Lights, Corsa, Platnium Grille, Volant
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    15,992

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer View Post
    ...........and there are those on here who have had the timeserts done and claim its just a bandaid fix and will go out real fast. There is usually more than one side to every story. When my h/g's blew I got rid of the POS and didn't timesert so I cannot attest to the longetivity of a timeserted N* and obviously neither can Ranger, but for some reason.........................he does.
    I have had a hg fail and i HAVE had it timeserted and its 15k later no problem
    and id STILL buy a cadillac..

  13. #12
    AJxtcman's Avatar
    AJxtcman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): The Northstar Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Rock Hill SC
    Age
    46
    Posts
    2,754

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I don't think I have ever heard of a properly Timeserted block fail again. Have you?
    If the block is PROPERLY inspected and is able to have a TimeSert install it should last as long as the bolt would. If the block is inspected and it is found to have pitting in the bolt hole and when drilled out the pits are still present the TimeSert will not hold up most of the time. How many people inspect the block Proberly?

  14. #13
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Woodstock Ill.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    73,300

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer View Post
    Very true but this is a high buck repair so its a little different than a head gasket on an old Chevy for instance. Plus, the block itself can get screwed up in the process. Doesn't Cadillac recommend changing the motor out vs repairing the heads?.
    No (assuming as AJ said that there is no pitting). The thread repair procedure is in the FSM. Now an unscrupulous dealer wanting to sell you a new engine may tell you otherwise.

  15. #14
    ss6r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1998 Cadillac Seville STS
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    St. Clair Shores, MI
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    Thanks! for the info to everybody who responded, does anyone recommend replacing frt. rear main seals if there is just some seepage on the bottom of the engine since the engine and cradle are out? Everything sounds easy to replace, but I am not sure if it is worth the risk changing them and of making things worse. Are you familiar with replacing them and the difficulties involved?

  16. #15
    tateos's Avatar
    tateos is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1997 ETC (GAVE TO STEPSON 2011), 2000 DTS (RIP)
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,713

    Re: Need help on 98 Seville/Northstar

    My rear main seal and oil pan gasket were leaking, so I yanked the engine out of the cradle and changed them and also the front main seal. The front seal calls for a special tool to install, but I was able to use a hammer and a block of wood. The original rear main seal design was leak prone, so they have come out with a new design on newer models - I think it was '99 and up. Anyway, the new design seal is a press fit in the block AND onto the crankshaft flange, so a special tool must be used - around $300 with shipping direct from SPX/OTC.

    RM

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting